Job Discussion Forums

tazmania · Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 19

Great website, been a reader for quite some time- now I have a problem of my own.

My current situation is this:

I have the (z visa) resident permit and FEC book (I am totally legal) and it is valid until september.
I am in a (not so good) situation where I may need to change my visa; essentially my employer is saying he can and will cancel my RP with the PSB. I don't doubt this, as I know he is in the city government and he has done this before to other foreign teachers. So I am considering all my options. I can tell you that this is a contractual issue, basically they are unable to provide me with the classes they promised; hence I want out.

Therefore I am planning to go to HK to change my current visa to a F business visa. Will I be able to get an F visa in HK even if my current visa still has 6 months left, and has not been cancelled by the psb in my province?

I am also wondering, will my current visa be cancelled in HK upon the issuance of the new F visa? Or will they say no can do?

Thanks

Taz

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

You cannot have two concurrent visas in your passport, mate; one has to be void, i.e. cancelled.

It's best if the PSB in your current base does that; if you ask a HK travel agent to request this from the mainland authorities I doubt they will do it on a visa still good for 6 months!
They might want to hear your good reasons for this!
It is my understanding that only visas of a few days or a couple of weeks' validity get cancelled.

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

Spiderman Too · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:59 am Post subject:

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

on a related note, the 6 month F visa is very easy to get. i just got one in HK three weeks ago.

tazmania · Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 19

Many thanks for the advice.

So to paraphrase, they can't cancel my RP without my being there and personally consenting to a termination. However they can revoke my FEC.

If this is the case then I feel a lot better about things. However, I am not in Beijing, and I wonder if the law would be followed. From my past dealings with the PSB I am not so sure.

I have heard of cases of foreign teachers having false criminal accusations made about them by the PSB, in order to get the visa cancelled/cause the teacher to leave the province.

So, do I have 30 days from the revocation of the FEC to find a new employer who is able to sponsor my visa? However without a release letter (and I know i won't get one!!) how can a new employer do this?

Could I get my visa cancelled - personally consent - then go to HK for the Business visa?

Sorry so many questions.

Taz

tazmania · Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 19

Oh, and i've been in China for 18 months

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

First, the 18-months' stay in China shows. Forgive me -- but it does.....

Next, you are making a very serious assumption -- you will agree to have your current resident permit / Z visa revoked / terminated / cancelled, whatever. At that point, an entry will be made into your PSB record that your resident permit /visa has been revoked / terminated / cancelled, whatever.

Next, you will need immediately upon revocation be required to obtain a tourist visa in order to justify your temporary staying in the PRC. Your resident permit / Z visa will be immediately cancelled, at your request, and it needs to be replaced with another visa which will allow you to remain until you exit to Hong Kong. Thus, you will need to obtain at least the minimum 30-day tourist visa on the spot, which is by no means GUARANTEED. If your school were to assist you, then that would more-or-less guaranteed. But if you and your school are parting on the worst of circumstances, and they are insisting that you cancel your resident permit, and you concur, then there is a very good possibility that you may be refused a tourist day from within the country and that you may be exited.

Next, you are truly gratuitously assuming that the Representation Office in Hong Kong will automatically issue a re-entry visa. Under normal circumstances, I think this would be a given. But let us suppose that you present yourself in their offices with a revoked / cancelled / terminated resident permit and with a notice on file that you were denied a subsequent temporary conversion to a short-term tourist visa...I would take a strong wager that you risk being refused another visa -- after all, under those circumstances the Representation Office is more than likely to check with the PSB.

My God, are you making a complicated mess of these things. Forgive me, but how old are you?

First, you negotiate an end-of-contract with them. Second, you return the Foreign Expert Certificate to them and obtain from them AT THE SAME TIME, a stamped, typed letter that says that you have returned the Foreign Expert Certificate. If you duly return the Certificate, then by law they must give you this letter. And all employers usually do -- even those that I have left under less-than-rosy conditions.

You will need to find a job in another province. It is a given that you will be never allowed to work in the same province again -- not because of the PSB but because your employer, if it knows at all what it is doing, will inform the local SAFEA that you have broken the contract, and the local SAFEA will not issue you with another Foreign Expert Certificate for that province -- which Foreign Expert Certificate is akin to a work permit.

If you find another job in another province, and you surely will, your prospective employer should be able to overcome the lack of a letter of recommendation but it will cost them money -- officially cost the prospective new employer much more money -- for the process. Again, it is not a given but these matters are usually resolved by a change of province. I hope that your credentials and background are strong enough so that a new employer will feel that the costs involved with your paperwork are worth the extra expense. Additionally, is there not anyone at the school where you are now who would be willing to write you a Letter of Recommendation, even a cursory one?

As for criminal proceedings, please calm down. Paranoia on a rather galloping stage seems to be setting in here and what you need is to remain calm, to think like an adult, to think exceptionally logically, and to have a Plan A and a Plan B. If you are absolutely determined to make a runner to Hong Kong -- than do it. And then send me a postcard when they won't let you back in.

The rules have changed.

tazmania · Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 19

Thanks for the information HunanForeignGuy. Roger, In my passport I have the Residence permit for foreigner in the people's republic of china.

I'm pretty sure that if I agreed to the cancellation I would get given 7 days to leave the country, and HunanForeignGuy points out, getting another working visa may be very troublesome if not impossible, with that on my record.

therock · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1266 Location: China

Just last semester I went to Hong Kong with a still valid residence permit. I was applying for another Z visa. They made me write down the bottom of the page that I give my consent to have the current residence permit cancelled. Then the new Z visa replaced that.

The only thing is that I only had 3 days left on my residence permit. Also I completed the contract. But they didn't ask if I completed the contract.

So maybe go to Hong Kong and go through a travel agent. It might not even be necessary to get the residence permit cancelled before going to Hong Kong.

What province are you running from?

tazmania · Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 19

jeffinflorida · Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject:

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

Mytime · Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 173

I now have the new z visa/residents permit sticker in my passport, received on my last renewal, but even on the old system with the Zvisa and the green book I was never asked for my residents permit on departure or arrival. And I departed and arrived 5 or six times a year. I handed over my passport, they stamped it. Simple as that. I have never been asked to show anything other than my passport and whatever is in it even to the cops who show up on my doorstep every six months or so.