Job Discussion Forums

[Curious George]

Hello all,

I was hoping someone could give me some information and good advice. I am an American and have been teaching English in Korean Public schools for the past 4 years. I really enjoy teaching children but am yearning to get back to an English speaking country (but not America, haha!). I have always wanted to come to Australia.

I have a Bachelors of Journalism from a large University in America and a CELTA certificate. I want to come to Australia and teach in Primary school and it is my understanding that I can come and obtain a 1 year Graduate Degree in Education.

If I do obtain this degree, it is my understanding that it will allow me to obtain a visa to work, live, and teach in an Australian primary school. Is this correct?

I have sent inquiries to the following universities that have this degree available. I would like advice on which ones are good or better than the rest and if there are any I should avoid. I am interested in a nice campus and a good location. Also, if there is a school with a good reputation that is not on my list, I would appreciate a recommendation.

Univ of the Sunshine Coast
Univ of Queensland
Univ of Adelaide
Univ of Newcastle
Univ of Notre Dame
RMIT Univ
Murdoch Univ
Latrobe Univ

(Any good ones I missed?)

Also, as these univ are all over the country could anyone give me ideas on which areas are desirable to live in? I am mainly interested in quality of life. I would like to be in the sunshine and near good diving spots and beaches. (haha, isnt that all of Australia?)

I am leaning towards The Univ of the Sunshine coast because it is in Brisbane. My understanding that Brisbane has nice warm weather all year round...

Your ideas and information would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[keitepai]

Hi there,
Re your post on uni's and places to live in Australia;

I lived on the Sunshine Coast (Noosa) and it is beautiful with all the beaches, sunshine, diving etc you could want BUT Brisbane area is in the midst of a long drought and water is very precious. Residents are required to have 2 minute showers max! Can be humid if you like that? Rent is high in Noosa, Coolum, but area's closer to Brisbane can be more reasonable but not as nice. There are S.C campuses I think in Maroochydore which is ok. Queenslanders can a bit harsh in personality and sometimes racist (in my experience!) The jobs there are hard to get in state schools - it's a matter of knowing the right people often.

Melbourne is considered more 'cultured' but the weather is not as sunny and in winter the temperatures are freezing - almost as bad as NZ!
Perth is a dry heat, sorry don't know about Uni's.

As far as teaching qualifications go I would make sure that the Uni you choose is an approved qualification for whichever state you choose to teach in. A teacher I knew had a worthless degree from NSW that was not recognised within the state system - poor her! She could do an upgrade but wished she had checked it out properly first.

I had to go through a lot of red tape to get my NZ teaching degree recognised by Queensland Teachers Council as equivalent to an Australian teaching degree and then apply for official teacher registration before I could teach. There were fees for both processes and each state has separate teacher registration. In Queensland (and maybe the rest of Oz) you need to apply for a 'Blue card' through the Department of Families and Communities - this can take months and they will do a thorough background check and obtain police clearances from each country you have been in. Mine took 2 months because I was a foreigner.

I did go through the whole process but decided to go overseas instead for better pay.
Hope this helps - only my opinion so best to go have a holiday and look for yourself.
Good luck

[Curious George]

Thanks for your reply.

This is the type of information that is very helpful to me. I hadn't thought about the availability of jobs within the school system. School teaching jobs are listed on the Aussie immigration website as one of the needed professions there, so I thought there was a shortage.

I guess I need to update this thread by asking for information on how hard it is to obtain a teaching job in a certain area after I graduate.

Also, say for example I get a degree in Queensland and cannot find a job there, won't the degree be good in other parts of the country as well?

It would suck if I spent $15,000 on a Degree and then there are no jobs in that area, lol!

[keitepai]

I had a quick look on the Queensland Depatment of Education and Arts job vacancies site -www.education.qld.gov.au. Well, most of them are Secondary teaching I think in places I wouldn't live - Moranbah (inland mining town), Rockhampton (northern coastal town), Cairns - might be ok? Good diving anyway!

When they have listed teaching as a shortage I think they mean that if you are prepared to go into a remote place/bad area you will get a job otherwise you may just have to work your way in by supply teaching and hoping for a permanent position to come up. Just have to 'do your time'.

I did ask a family member who is teaching in Perth, W.A and it is the same. Although in saying that some of those dusty outback communities can give you great life experiences and the extra pay you can get for remote postings (housing supplied, re-location allowance in some locations) can give you the benefit of more holiday money.
So, I'll leave it there......keep an eye on the websites for each state department. Hope there are some others that can help you more.

[Nimah]

Hi George,

I can speak fairly confidently on this topic as I have a) completed a Grad Dip in WA from Murdoch and b) stayed behind a year to teach.

Much like the previous poster stated, the teaching 'shortages' in Australia are basically in the areas you wouldn't want to me. Pretty much the ONLY way to spend an extended amount of time in Australia is to be sponsored, and this will only come from the various Dept's of Education and Training. For this sponsorship (usually 3 years) you MUST go to a rural/remote area. They generally do not take your grade preference or region into consideration, so you are looking at teaching any year (sometimes composite classes) in any part of the state where you have applied. Additionally, (as in WA) you may be required to stay in substandard government housing in the more remote areas.

If you choose not to do this then you can opt for the 1 year working holiday visa. This will see you doing relief teaching, but it is very rare to pick up any steady employment as you are limited by your visa. You most certainly will probably not find a full-time regular teaching job with your own class because there are hundreds of Australian teachers vying for those positions (and looking to come back into the Metro areas from teaching rurally).

With regards to the Grad. Dip. It is going to cost a heck of a lot more then $15,000!! The international student fees are astronomical here and I personally find the cost of living quite high compared to North America. That being said I LOVE WA and am returning in a couple months to see friends/family and my partner. I think the vibe on the West Coast is really chilled out and relaxed. Perth is a beautiful city with lots of green space and the people are friendly. If you are more into the mainstream, big city, clubs scene then I would recommend the East Coast.

As for the Grad. Dip. Mmmmmmm...it was VERY expensive but in the end I am glad I got it. That being said I think it is a good investment in your future, but can be done much cheaper at home.

Any other questions feel free to PM me.

[Curious George]

Hey thanks for the info.

This gives me much to think about.

I am getting very burned out on Asia and want to return to an English speaking country to teach. I really enjoy teaching children, but unfortunately the only place to make any money teaching ESL is in Asia, and I do not want to return to America. I thought that getting the Graduate dipEd in Australia would allow me to live there and teach for an extended period of time. If not, then it should qualify me for some international schools or even the UK to teach in which would offer a much larger range of opportunities and more money too.

It sounds like I have to decide whether or not spending 3 or more years in a rural outback area is worth the chance to get a better job later on and a possible permanent visa. From the vague information I read on the immigration website if you work in Australia for a period of 4 or 5 years I believe you are then eligible to apply for a permanent visa. I'm not sure if this is correct or not.

I have been emailing several universities and getting replies and according to what I have been told the total Uni tuition fees for the 1 year dip ed is approximately $14000 - $16000 AUD depending on the uni. This is tuition only, so for living, food, books, etc it would cost probably double that, but I was hoping to work part time to get money for those extra costs. I am also married (to a Thai girl) and have been told she will be able to work as well. So that will help with the bills.

I have narrowed it down to the following universities based on their responses (or non-response)

Monash Univ
LaTrobe Univ
RMIT Univ
Murdoch

The first 3 Unis are in Melbourne I believe and Murdoch is in Perth?

So anyone with any info on these schools I would appreciate any advice on them. I am sure they are all good but if there is anything outstanding...

Right now I am leaning towards Monash because it is one of the Big 8 schools. Dunno if that counts for anything though...

Anyways, gotta run and teach the kiddies now. Thanks for your helpful information.

[eslstudies]

I live in Adelaide, after several years in China, and teach ESL within the state system. Salary and general conditions are good. We've just come off a record 15 day heatwave, if that helps. There are 3 universities in town, all offering education degrees and post grad quals.

Previous posters are correct regarding shortages. You have to go where you're needed initially, but its really the best way to get your foot in the door. Otherwise you just need to hope for contracts and relief work, but that probably wouldn't keep immigration happy. There is a fair amount of ESL work around. Many of the ads are for Queensland as well. Perhaps working part time in that area is an option. Certainly doing ESL as a specialisation within your grad diploma is worth considering. Most ESL work is within the main cities too. Look on www.careerone.com.au using esl/efl as search terms.

As for which institution, there's an annual publication called "The Good Universities Guide", co-authored by Dean Ashenden, my old History lecturer, which analyses and rates all Australian unis. I'm sure you could buy a copy on the net.
If your wife's English is OK finding work won't be a problem. For eg, base level qualifications in Childcare and Aged Care take about 6 months, aren't expensive, and there's always a demand

[bule_boy69]

I would say A$14k sounds bout rite. I did mine as an international student in Adelaide a few years back and paid about 12k. U r rite ....it wont be cheap here... Melbourne is cheaper than sydney/Perth, but it's also a bit colder in winter - that's an issue for me anyway.

My qualification is good nationwide as far as I know....I have used in in South Australia and in Victoria so far.

Look...i could type lotsa stuff here..about melbn...esl in melbn..... if it really matters whether u go to Monash or La trobe...but....

Most importantly u gotta be clear what u want outa this...

If u r cool using your qualification to help you get a better job in Asia or somewhere eg: international or English program High school...yeah might be a good investment...

If u wanna stay in Australia..well u gotta do your homework re immigration.

I hate to be a downer, but i dont think all this talk of sponsorship and living in the outback is very helpful...

Cos even if there is a shortage in those remote areas..and you sought sponsorship...there might be problems.

Getting a visa as a skilled migrant here depends on several factors...

most importantly your skills, age and english language ability. Look at the points test on the DIAC website. Studying here might get you some points...maybe not its always changing.

But one thing u gotta check is the amount of time you need to study befre you can apply for TR or PR!

years back it was one year, then it changed to two. Now i know a grad dip ed is one year...and then u r a qualified teacher. But usually skilled migrants need a year of experience before they can apply. International students get a work experience waiver.... but i think that's only if u complete TWO years of full time study!

My info might be outa date..but u got to get yourself clued up about immigration (if your intention is to stay) before wasting time looking into unis etc...

One possibility might be to get yr grad dip ed...head back to asia and get a years experience and then apply for a PERMANENT VISA.

It certainly is possible to migrate here as a school teacher and i dont think u need to sell your soul to some desert hellhole to do it....

Have u thought about contacting an immigration agent? many give initial advice for free....

Good luck

[Def]

Ah dear. Too many issues to really address them all in a single post, so feel free to PM me about the universities and such. At a glance though, I'd recommend La Trobe (Vic), UWA (W.A), or the Uni of Adelaide (S.A) ... and I suppose Melbourne University (Vic), although it physically pains me to type that. Personally I've never been remotely interested in studying in QLD, so I have no idea what the universities there are like.

The DipEd (Graduate Diploma in Education) is certainly the qualification you get here to teach in Australia, but I haven't a clue what our visa laws say about how long it'd let you live here for etc. Never needed to find out.


So, on to general business...

[Curious George]

Hi everyone,

Well I havent checked this post in a few months. Thanks for all the great advice.

My plan is to stay in Korea for another year to save up as much money as possible and then head to one of the Melbourne Universities to get the Graduate Dip Ed.

Then hopefully after I get the degree, I will be able to find a job teaching in Australia and obtain the necessary visas to stay for awhile. However, I understand that since I am American it may not be possible for me to stay in Australia for an extended period of time teaching due to immigration issues. Its kind of a crap shoot I guess. But I am optimistic.

I am looking at this degree as an investment that will also allow me to make more money in the future.

So even if I am not able to stay in Australia and teach like I want, I will still be able to use the degree to hopefully teach in other places of the world such as the UK, or maybe even possibly Dubai or some other middle eastern country. I am hoping that this degree will also qualify me to teach in some of the international schools around the world.

At some point I maybe would like to return to my wife's country (Thailand)to live. It is a beautiful country. But teaching doesnt hardly pay enough there unless you get a job at an international school. So, there will also be that option to be able to go back to Thailand and get a job at an international school and actually make decent money instead of the chicken scratch most of the normal teaching jobs pay there.

That is my hope anyways.

[Def]

[eslstudies]

A Dip Ed and a few years experience in a Western country could see you comfortably esconced on the international school circuit.
My experience of working in the UK is way out of date, but I wouldn't teach there again in a blue fit. The cost of living alone makes teaching a fringe dwelling occupation.