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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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 Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: Does Japan refuse degrees like this? |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excelsior_College
Excelsior College is accredited by the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools. It is a legitimate, accredited university in New York.
However, I'm aware that a lot of people (and immigration bureaus) don't know the difference between a genuine, accredited distance degree that took just as much hard work as one from a brick-and-mortar school, and a fake degree like Belford University.
What is Japan's policy on distance degrees? What do they do about degrees from Excelsior College, Thomas Edison State College, University of Phoenix, et cetera?
Note that I'm not asking whether one can find a job with this degree or not, but LEGALLY how it would go over. Would a person's visa get refused if their only bachelor's was from Excelsior College? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I don't think there is a clearcut policy, Rooster. Many of the regulations are just guidelines, and what success one person may have could be a failure by the next with identical situations. Depends on the immigration office and sometimes even the officer within the same office!
Give it a shot. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Personally, I don't think there is a clearcut policy, Rooster. Many of the regulations are just guidelines, and what success one person may have could be a failure by the next with identical situations. Depends on the immigration office and sometimes even the officer within the same office!
Give it a shot. |
Well, Glenski, if I had the degree already, I would, seeing as how I could be in Japan tomorrow if I got on the right ferry. The trouble is, I have another year and a half (at least) of toiling before getting that degree. So in order to give it a shot, I have to spend countless sleepless nights toiling for what, in the end, might not even get me a working visa in Japan. It's a real gamble, isn't it?
Does anyone know about things that have happened in the past with accredited online degrees? Got any friends from University of Phoenix, Excelsior College, Thomas Edison State University, etc. that have been either rejected or accepted? |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Does Japan refuse degrees like this? |
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Japan accepts any real degree. Delivery method for the institution isn't a factor.
Whether it's a "real degree" or not is another question. |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| If you can supply documentation from the appropriate accreditation bureau, you shouldn't have a problem. Of course, shouldn't doesn't mean definitely won't. |
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mc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Posts: 90
Location: Aichi, Japan
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| mc wrote: |
| Why not avoid the issue altogether by earning your distance degree through a college or university that also has a bricks-and-mortar presence. |
In short, dramatically higher costs (tens of thousands of dollars more) and entire years added to the time I need to spend on my degree.
I already checked out many of those schools. I'm sure they're better, and if money and time weren't an issue, I'd go for one of them, probably. However, Excelsior College (along with Thomas Edison and a few others) offer very liberal transfer requirements (take almost all the credits for $87.10/credit from my hometown's community college) and very flexible degree programs -- no need to take 75% of my credits as proprietary courses offered only at one school. I need a degree program with a ton of room for electives, because I've taken a lot of courses that don't fit into many degree programs (soon, I will have 42 credits in Korean language alone, in addition to five in Chinese).
I know it's probably not a very respected degree (although it's accredited), but if it gets me a visa for Japan, it will have accomplished the same purpose as a degree that takes tens of thousands of dollars extra and an extra two years to earn!
I can then use that two years that I saved and the money I saved to get a master's from a decent school!
That's why I'm asking if this possibly sub-par but accredited degree will allow me to get a visa. As for finding a job, I'm pretty sure I can do that even with a sub-par degree, seeing as how I have experience teaching in Asia and a CELTA.
Last edited by Rooster_2006 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| In short, dramatically higher costs (tens of thousands of dollars more) and entire years added to the time I need to spend on my degree. |
Your Excelsior degree shouldn't prevent you from getting into Japan and landing a good job. From there, it's largely what you do professionally (not the least of which is establishing connections) that will determine your upward mobility in the typical professional situation. However, keep in mind that you'll be working in education. There are lots of ingrained thoughts among educators about the academic pecking order. That's not to say you won't be a good teacher, but that some people are more comfortable with established labels than with on-the-ground performance. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| In short, dramatically higher costs (tens of thousands of dollars more) and entire years added to the time I need to spend on my degree. |
Your Excelsior degree shouldn't prevent you from getting into Japan and landing a good job. From there, it's largely what you do professionally (not the least of which is establishing connections) that will determine your upward mobility in the typical professional situation. However, keep in mind that you'll be working in education. There are lots of ingrained thoughts among educators about the academic pecking order. That's not to say you won't be a good teacher, but that some people are more comfortable with established labels than with on-the-ground performance. |
Good to hear! I'm not so concerned about encountering some discrimination because of the delivery method of my degree (I expect that), but an absolute "we cannot issue you a visa because we perceive your degree as fake" would be a huge problem. The consensus in this thread seems to be "you'll be okay, though certain individuals might give you a few problems."
As long as I can get *a* job, it will allow me to be in Japan, earning a paycheck. If I want a better job and can't work my way up because people are looking down at my degree, it's okay -- Temple University is right there, with a graduate school to boot! At least I'll be in Japan, earning money, in case I feel I need to upgrade at a later time. |
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windstar
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Once I applied for a position at a university in the capital region, the hr department simply asked if my degrees are obtained online or not. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| windstar wrote: |
| Once I applied for a position at a university in the capital region, the hr department simply asked if my degrees are obtained online or not. |
Which means what? You told them, but got the job? You told them and didn't get the job as a result? You told them and got the job, but didn't get the visa? What does this mean? |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Temple University is right there, with a graduate school to boot! |
Temple Japan is ridiculously expensive. Even with the money you'll save by getting your undergrad degree online, it'll still be prohibitively expensive.
I'll send a PM to you in a few hours. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Temple University is right there, with a graduate school to boot! |
Temple Japan is ridiculously expensive. Even with the money you'll save by getting your undergrad degree online, it'll still be prohibitively expensive.
I'll send a PM to you in a few hours. |
Yeah, I looked into their tuition costs, and their UNDERGRADUATE program is like $500 or more per credit hour (about six times what I pay right now). Their graduate program is like twice that. It's ridiculous. I'd only do it if I really thought it was going to pay off.
On the other hand, US financial aid can be used at Temple -- this still might not justify it, though. I see what you mean, I was just pointing it out. 
Last edited by Rooster_2006 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| windstar wrote: |
| Once I applied for a position at a university in the capital region, the hr department simply asked if my degrees are obtained online or not. |
I've seen that too. What's more, I was asked in an interview on a Tokyo military base if I had done my Temple BA in Philadelphia or Tokyo (in fact, it was the first question). When I told them it was in Philadelphia, they expressed relief. Temple says that the program in Tokyo is no different from what's offered in Philadelphia (I haven't taken the program at both places, so I can't confirm that), but that's beside the point. If hiring officials suspect there's a difference, there's your lot. It's not like they have to justify their decision to not hire you. |
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Chris21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I've seen that too. What's more, I was asked in an interview on a Tokyo military base if I had done my Temple BA in Philadelphia or Tokyo (in fact, it was the first question). When I told them it was in Philadelphia, they expressed relief. Temple says that the program in Tokyo is no different from what's offered in Philadelphia (I haven't taken the program at both places, so I can't confirm that), but that's beside the point. If hiring officials suspect there's a difference, there's your lot. It's not like they have to justify their decision to not hire you. |
Are you suggesting that the Temple program in Tokyo is poorly regarded in Japan? Rod Ellis, Paul Nation, JD Brown, Michael Long... as well as a slew of other giants in the field have close associations with TUJ. As a graduate myself, being a TUJ alumnus has opened many doors for me. There are Temple people on hiring committees and holding down tenured uni positions all over this country. |
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