Job Discussion Forums

[JZer]

Since the money in ESL teaching is in Asia and the Middle East, what are the best places to live and teach ESL?


I am interested in two separate categories: money and lifestyle.

P.S.-I am not looking to live in another Asian country. I am just posting this to see others opinions.

[Marcoregano]

[Glenski]

Have been in Japan for many years now. Taught eikaiwa, high school, private lessons, and university.

My lifestyle is pretty good without being miserly. Have seen many places throughout Hokkaido.

My salary has been on the increase annually. No complaints.

I hate to quote the JET Programme motto, but ESID.

[william wallace]

The largest market is China,but salaries have been falling the past few years, and inflation has been creeping up steadily.The main city here is to be avoided (and no, I'm not trying to save it for myself -take it!),and that is Beijing,but Shanghai can be pretty cool. Lots of western stuff, and Chinese if that's your thing.Try to get around 2,000 USD per month.
Supposedly I'm a a top private school in Beijing: Half the Shanghai salary(a complicated pay scheme= less than you expect), 50-60% of the FTs are also foreign speakers of English (Pilipinas,Africans,Iranian,Russian...)The textbooks have grammar errors, poor sentence construction...on and on, and this is amongst the best of school in Beijing.
Thailand is good outside of Bangkok,but the salary isn't geared towards saving.....Korea /some Hong Kong jobs(live in Zhuhai?); Japan, but I think Japan's better days are long gone....start up costs and a salary that hasn't moved in 15 years!

[Marcoregano]

As Glenski says - ESID, every situation is different - but I mean that in much broader terms than it was originally intended (as a description of the JET programme).

Every situation is different and everybody is different. Someone wants to go where savings are best while someone else might be more concerned about having a cultural experience and doesn't give a #$%t about money. The right destination for you depends on where you're at in your life and what your goals are.

If I could return to my early 20s I'd head for a remote, beautiful location in Thailand or maybe Malaysia and wouldn't care about money for a while. If. Well heck, maybe I'll do it anyway. One of these days.

[JZer]

[moneyoriented]

It's been a while since I lived in Asia, but for what it's worth, here's my impression of some of the countries:

Japan: clean, extremely safe, polite. You can drink the tap water (I think Singapore and maybe Brunei and/or Hong Kong are the only other places in Asia where you can do this). People are generally very polite, if unexpressive, but it's not so easy to befriend the Japanese.... their government has for generations indoctrinated them with a very deep sense of being different from (and superior to) the rest of humanity. Many Japanese hate foreigners, but they keep it to themselves - they will not glare at you like some Koreans will, for example. These are, of course, gross generalizations. I like gross generalizations because they help those of us intelligent enough to know their uses and limits to understand a very complicated world. Japan is also very expensive, and Japanese food is bland - traditionally they don't like garlic, pepper or spices - so you might get tired of it pretty quick (but at least it won't give you bad breath, make you fart, etc., which I suspect is precisely why Japanese cuisine evolved the way it did). Public transportation in Tokyo area is superb - maybe the best system in the world. Cops are very nice and helpful to foreigners, but the Japanese don't like them.


Korea: Many similarities to Japan, as Japan got most of its culture from (or through) Korea in ancient times, and Korea got much of its modern culture from Japan during 50 years as a Japanese colony. And of course, they've both had a lot of American influence since 1945.
Yet... there are big differences. Korean food is spicy, vinegary and garlicy (and delicious for a while, but again, it's pretty monotonous - you might get tired of it in short order). People are not hung up on politeness (understatement). Actually, people are very emotional / expressive - they can often be very friendly, but others will be extremely rude or hostile for no apparent reason (my guess is racism, which seems to be directed at white guys, especially if in the company of an Asian female - doesn't matter if she's actually Korean or not). It's not uncommon to see people fighting in public. I once saw an elderly Korean couple screaming and hitting each other on the sidewalk while people looked on like it was no big deal. This would simply not happen in Japan. Koreans honk their horns constantly; Japanese never do. Koreans drink like crazy - even more than the Japanese. They also smoke like crazy, like Asians in general. Koreans have a heck of a lot of energy, especially compared to the Japanese - and I don't know if it's from their food (the kimchi? beef? ginseng?) or their emotions (especially anger/hate, which is actually a cherished central aspect of Korean culture - look it up - they call it "han"), or what. Every Korean male is inducted into the military, where they are seriously toughened up (you can totally tell the guys who've done their service from those who haven't yet). Supposedly they all earn at least a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. Supposedly they are also all beaten with iron pipes as part of their basic training. I have no problem believing that.

Taiwan - the richest, nicest province of China. Nicest Chinese people. They also lived under Japanese rule for 50 years, but unlike the Koreans, they don't hate the Japanese - on the contrary - they like the Japanese, and the feeling is mutual. Delicious food. They still use traditional Chinese characters, like Hong Kong and Macau, but unlike China and Singapore. Taipei, the capital, is rated one of the top places in Asia for expat quality of life, clean air, etc., behind only Singapore and a few big Japanese cities. The only place I've ever seen a cop physically monitoring an internet cafe - actually walking around checking everyone's screens. That was weird.

Hong Kong - Most modern, prosperous city of China. You can get by in English here better than in most other places in Asia. Like Koreans, not famous for being polite. Great food, but be careful - the government doesn't check restaurant hygiene, and you can get very, very sick here if you eat at the wrong restaurant or street stall. Expensive place. One of the best airports and best airlines in the world, and a hub for inexpensive flights (unlike Japan and Taiwan, for example).

China - Well, I was there a few times between 1994 and 2000, and it's changing so fast that I probably wouldn't recognize it anymore. Spent time in Beijing, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Guangzhou, Dongguan, Shenzhen and Zhuhai. Of those, I liked Beijing the best - it was the most modern, clean, safe place. And I liked the food, much more than what I ate in Shanghai, but Hangzhou and the cities of Guangdong also have great food. Chinese food is the best - the most variety, including plenty of Japanese and Korean places, if that's your thing. People in the north seemed pretty nice, whereas in Guangdong - I don't know - they're more like Koreans or Hong Kong people. Again, maybe this is just because I was a white guy with an Asian girlfriend - people really made an effort to be rude and say nasty things to her. It really hurt her and pissed me off. Then again, Guangdong province is famous for having the highest crime rate in China, so it wasn't just us. We were attacked by aggressive child beggars in both Shenzhen and Shanghai - a whole pack of kids would just chase you and try to get their hands in your pockets, etc. Other times it wasn't so bad, just 1 small kid who would run up and attach herself to my leg and not want to let go until I paid up. That was actually kind of fun - I laughed, and so did she... I shrugged my shoulders and started walking with her sitting on my foot, etc., but she still wouldn't let go. Finally I tickled her and I was able to get free and run away. I saw some unbelieveably tough, mean, scary-looking cops roughing up some peaceful Falun Gong people in Tiananmen Square once - I'll never forget that. I'd gone there to view the lowering of the Chinese flag ceremony around sunset. I think I was the only foreigner there, and some Chinese were giving me strange looks. A couple of friendly guys (like university students) started talking to me, and suggested a place nearby for dinner - a great hot-pot restaurant. They insisted on treating. It was clear to me that they were some kind of spies, trying to find out what I was doing in Tiananmen Square and what I thought of Falun Gong. I told them right up front that I didn't understand what any of that was about, and didn't understand either the Falun Gong people or the authorities' obsession with them. That was apparently a good enough answer for them, because they shrugged and agreed that was the end of it - the rest of the conversation was pleasant and didn't involve anything political.

Oh, one other thing. Japanese and Hong Kong people understand the concept of queueing. Not so the Koreans and Mainland Chinese (although supposedly Beijingers have been tutored on this point in preparation for the Olympics). You might not think it's a big deal, but you'd be amazed at how it can get to you the first few times people blatantly cut right in front of you in line. People were doing it left and right in the long line to Mao's Maosoleum (spelling, I know). I couldn't believe it. At least they were doing it all along the line, not just right in front of us. Even worse was one time in Seoul Korea, when a tough-looking middle aged guy (plain-clothes cop?) cut right in front of me in a line of only 3 or 4 people in a small shop. My mouth dropped for a minute or so, and then I went right around him. And then he did it AGAIN. Unbelieveable. I think the guy wanted me to fight him so he could beat the hell out of me and have me arrested or something. I let it so without a word, but I was seething.

Another odd thing. In Korea and Hong Kong, I was sometimes "bumped into" where it really didn't seem like an accident - it really seemed as if these guys went out of their way to deliberately and forcefully bump into me, and didn't bother to say "sorry" or "excuse me" or even look back at me. This never happened in Japan or Taiwan or even China, even though I spent much more time in those places. I don't know what to make of this, except that the incident in Hong Kong happened in the airport, so maybe it was part of a scam to swipe my bag while I was distracted? (If so, it didn't work, because I quickly looked back at my bag and looked all around me to spot anyone suspicious).

Thailand: wow - what a great country. Nice people (generally) - they seem much more at peace, happy, and friendly than any of the above mentioned nationalities. Great food, both local and international, healthy, hygienic and cheap. Cheap to live, but everyone wants to live there, so wages are also low. Good airport, great airline, excellent hub for cheap flights. Umm...but the cops seem a little dodgy - always shaking down the poor taxi drivers, and sizing you up as well.



Well, hope this has been enjoyable reading.