Job Discussion Forums

[spiral78]

There's a fairly regular poster on the Spain/Russia/General Europe forums who insists that newbies must have a basic grasp of the language of the country where they want to teach PRIOR to going there - in fact, he says they will 'crash and burn' without it.

I think we all agree that language teachers should be language learners, and that local language knowledge is useful and desirable.

But I wonder whether anyone else agrees that it's a necessary PREREQUISITE before newbie teachers travel abroad?

[MELEE]

I said no, but I'd have liked another option in the poll--a teacher should have an interest in learning the local language. I always wonder how students can trust the integrity of a foreign language teacher who is not interested in learning foriegn languages?

[spiral78]

I think we all agree that language teachers should be language learners, and that local language knowledge is useful and desirable.

Yes, of course. I'm obviously polling for an extreme, here.

I know expats who've lived in Prague for years without making any effort at Czech. I think that's rude and reprehensible.

But the idea I'm floating is whether it is a necessary prerequisite before travelling. The poster on the Spain forum says it is.

[MELEE]

The right person can survive anywhere, without speaking the local language. The wrong person will maybe not "crash and burn" but at best be needy and helpless. Most of us are somewhere inbetween.

[Guy Courchesne]

I said yes, but also would have preferred another option. Based on how I've seen some people washout of Mexico based almost completely on cultural or linguistic problems, I do believe that one has to, at the very least, have language abilities and exercise them daily in order to make a good go of it.

[spiral78]

Wow. I am really not being clear, here.

The poster I'm referring to insists that newbs must have functional language skills BEFORE getting there. Don't go without them, he says.

I'm 100% convinced that local language skills are needed if anyone's going to make a go of it in the long term.

But, look, guys...I've seen hundreds of newbies (literally) with my own eyes, who land in a country WITHOUT functional skills in the local language, take a course, pick up enough local language to get along, and perform anywhere along the range of washing out to becoming stars.

It's NOT A PRE-REQUISITE. I don't think

[blackmagicABC]

I said no. I just also want to say if you are not functional in the language within two to three months you are not trying hard enough. After 2 to 3 months you should really have basic questions and about 300 to 400 words down. I have seen teachers in Taiwan who have lived here for more than 5 years that cannot understand when a kid says " I want to puke" in their native language. They hide behind "English Only". I also saw a kid puke on a teacher because he didn't understand the sentence and he had been here for 7 years. My sympathy is with the kid not the teacher. It was actually very funny. In five years you should be able to communicate relatively easily.

[fluffyhamster]

I'm tempted to say yes. On JET, I saw a girl get every little task done for her by her busy Japanese supervisor - it was easier to keep on fluttering her eyelids and wobbling her blouse than study enough to be able to get these things done herself. Same thing in Shanghai, where teacher trainers, supposedly experts in language learning, couldn't even order a meal or direct a taxi let alone know what was on the receipts they submitted for expenses (and this was on top of their substantially higher wages and benefits).

Most people of course get around to learning some of the local lingo, but there are some who are pretty dependent (parasitic even) upon the skills and goodwill of others, and often seem perfectly content to remain so.

I think if somebody hasn't even learned enough to say they should be able to get a taxi from the airport to the school, they probably shouldn't be hired (then again, if people were't met at the airport they'd probably feel unwelcome(d), and might not show up at all for their first day of work!).

Nice story, BM ABC (although I wonder if 'I'm gonna do a Linda Blair' is in every teacher's stock of survival phrases).

[danielita]

I don't think it is a prerequisite to have functional skills, but at least you should know some basic niceties to get you by. You should definitely have an interest in learning the language and willing to try to learn it. I can't imagine living in a country and being entirely dependent on someone for the simplest of things.

You gain a lot of good will from the locals if you try to speak the language. You might sound like a kid/drunk/fool, but at least you are trying to learn.

Think of it this way. People immigrate to the US and they are expected to learn English. Why shouldn't the same be expected of us when we are living abroad?

[Guy Courchesne]

[Glenski]

Some of you are making this poll hard to answer.

Are you talking about newbie = new to teaching EFL? new to the country?

Probably both, eh?

The confusing part to me is that newbie implies someone just arrived but who has not stated any long- or short-term intentions. If you make that clear, it is easier to understand the question (and answer it).

However, even so, the answer may depend on whether someone moves to a place that accommodates native English speakers. Look at the larger cities in Japan. Hardly any Japanese is really needed to function.

[Anda]

I have been an English teacher since 1990 and get very good results in teaching English to my students. I still don't have a second language. It takes me forty to sixty hours to teach basic speaking skills to my students over four to six weeks. Two thirds start to speak English after forty hours over four weeks and the rest need up to twenty hours more. Sixty hours over two weeks produces no results as I find I need a four weeks minimum spread. So much for needing a second language.


Mostly I live in places like where I am living now. I'm the only Western foreign worker in the city. I have been here for two years now.

[fluffyhamster]

[johnslat]

If knowing Arabic were a prerequisite before a newbie went to the Middle East, the number of them going there would be mighty tiny.

Heck, the US State Department had a grand total of 8 people who can speak Arabic with some fluency:

"Speaking, moreover, is generally harder than listening. No responsible person would ask a 3 to speak before an unfriendly crowd at the local university (or at the embassy gates), much less put a 3 in front of a television camera and expect a clear, engaging and cogent discussion of U.S. Middle East policy in Arabic. For that you need a 4, and preferably a 4+ or a 5. So how many of these 4 and 5 level speakers do we have in Arabic? As of August 2004 -- 27. At the highest levels (4+ and 5), we have a grand total of eight individuals worldwide."

Regards,
John

[fluffyhamster]

Glenski, I don't think it is too much to expect somebody who's committing to at least a year's contract (and that seems pretty standard) to have started learning the local language and at least have some basic functional phrases down before landing - anything that will make them find it easier to adpat and be less of a potential pain or even liability. All that being said, I'd be somewhat worried if somebody seemed more interested in learning a second language (or impressing everyone with their fluency already in it) than in teaching their first!

As for being a newb to teaching, everyone's obviously got to start somewhere so they should be cut a little slack (they have been hired initially mainly for their native ability, their "informant" role), and hopefully the value of their lessons will increase as their experience grows (assuming the methods employed by the school allow that experience to grow and want it to come to bear). (I'm still not sure though why some people are so willing to pay for lessons, even those from more experienced teachers, especially if it is always Direct Method only - code switching should be at least tolerated (I won't however say encouraged)).

Hi Johnslat. Since when did the average English teacher have to 'speak before an unfriendly crowd at the local university (or at embassy gates), much less...in front of a television camera and give a clear, engaging and cogent discussion of U.S. foreign policy'?

It might help if we defined what we mean by "basic grasp", "functional ability" or "fluency" etc in a language.

Hmm, in China, I think one has to build from at least knowing how to ask for a taxi to somewhere (or if need be refuse a dodgy-looking one!) upon landing, to being able to argue with and if necessary bribe officials when renewing visas going into a potential second year there.

BTW, I think one really needs to be able to pass short-term to get to 'long-term'. Without helpful colleagues, many people literally wouldn't be able to find the school let alone survive outside it with the language skills (non-existent) that they have when they land.

Still, I wouldn't say that being able to speak the local lingo prior to arrival should always be a prerequisite (mainly because there usually are colleagues and locals able if not willing to help if need be, not that I've ever really needed to impose on such people as a "newb", because I had thankfully learned enough Japanese and certainly Chinese before embarking for each country).