Job Discussion Forums

[Amani Renas]

Hey All,

I'm not new to the boards, but this is the first time I've decided to write something in this forum since losing my information and sign-in name nearly 2 years ago.
I don't know if there are that many black people here in the Indonesia forum (or Dave's ESL, for that matter), but I thought it would be a good idea to post some of the advice I've gotten from other people in regards to what being "black" in Indonesia might entail.

No offense to those who post here, but I have yet to find anything meaningful in regards to how I might find Indonesia (outside of which ESL schools to look out for, what might be a good salary, etc.) as a black woman.

I hope that, whether you read for educational purposes or just for leisure, you respect the opinions that have been offered here.

I asked a general question about how I would be perceived in another forum, and these have been the responses:

OK, I'm on anoynomous because I don't want to be perceived as racist or badmouthing my own country. I'm engaged to a white guy and to tell you the truth the reaction to white ppl and black ppl are almost the same:

"OOOOOOOOH!! A BLACK GIRL!!"

Stupid questions such as, "What does it feel like to be black?" will be fielded, not out of racism but out of ignorance and curiousity. My fiance was once asked also, "What does it feel like to be white?" Which he answered, "What does it feel like to be Indonesian?" And when they say, "I dunno, like a human I guess..." is when you reply, "exactly."Also, don't be offended if they call you negro, it's not out of racism, it's just they're used to the way white men refer to africans as negro. Another word you might be called is "Orang hitam" and it means literally black person.

Keep in mind the extent of Indonesian's exposure of African Americans are from Blaxploitation flicks, Danny Glover and Eddie Murphy movies. So, be a little bit more patient. In time people will no longer see you as exotic foreigner, but just another person trying to make a living.

I'm very sorry to also say that being dark-skinned is considred ugly, so there will be a chance of people saying, "What an ugly woman!" about you. It's not against you, believe me, everyone with dark brown skin are considred ugly by these morons. Just take this with a grain of salt.

If you need to know more, feel free to reply

Sorry if I offend you:(


Another writes,

There will be people staring, that's a given. The first commenter is pretty much on target. Please don't be insulted if somebody calls you a "negro" or "orang hitam" (also pronounced in slang as "orang item").

You will attract more attention if you're very tall (and by very tall I mean at least 180cm). If you're below that height and dress plainly, it's not impossible some will mistake you as a person from Indonesia's Papua region, who are also negroid.

Stereotypes that I've known:
- American = lots of money. Beware of people trying to rip you off.
- American = hates Islam (though it's more on the white American)
- Black = ugly
- Black (men) = soccer player or drug dealer
- Black = great singing voice
- Black = discriminated by white people (some people might ask you if you're discriminated in your country)

All in all, the impression I get from most foreigners living in Indonesia is that Indonesian people are very friendly. When I and a couple of coworkers were in France last year, one guy in the France office and his wife were very warm to us, inviting us for dinner and sightseeing, because when they went to our town two years before, they felt they were treated really well.


Another,

If you were here a couple years ago, you would get a lot of stares especially on the street. But I personally think Indonesian people are much open now to the outside world (especially in big cities like Jakarta). Yes, people will stop and glance twice, but hey... it probably an admiration, especially if you look like Beyonce (yes, people here knows and thinks Beyonce is sexy)

And judging from the way you write about yourself, I get a sense that you are a confident woman, and therefore you have nothing to worry about being different. You might want to worry about things you'll face being a foreigner, getting into a taxi and having the driver does not want to use argo so he can charge you more expensive, for instance.


I hope that this has been helpful to anyone (especially a POC) who has been looking into teaching English in the beautiful country of Indonesia.

I've been given the impression that while some Indonesians may hold prejudiced or racist beliefs, there are a great deal more who warmly welcome foreigners, and who are genuinely excited to share their culture with other people.

Of course, there will be uncomfortable, degrading moments that our white colleagues might not share, but I am certain that the majority of POC have already had experiences like this, and can easily adjust.

-A.

[laughing_magpie06]

I suggest avoiding Indonesia like the plague. The stares and comments we get as whites are 10 fold for blacks and not always nice. I know an Afro America lady personally who has almost had enough after quite a short time here. Indos are racist out of pure ignorance and lack of exposure to foreigners rather than malice. They are fed a diet of sinetron, gossip shows and cartoons, rarely watch the news or read and seem too lazy to do either. I think the government likes it that way too, keep em dumb and control them more easily is their plan I think. Inside their own culture, while they proudly market themselves as a country with diverse cultures and ethnic groups, they look down upon Papuans, Timorese etc who they think are inferior simply because of skin colour. Being Christian areas doesn't help either.

[ezekiel]

magpie is right..also, some African immigrants in Jakarta have got themselves (or been given) a very bad name, some of which earned by illegal activities..some of which, I'm sure, undeserved..but it all helps to perpetuate a feeling of superiority in 'real' Indonesians.

It is extremely, extremely rare to see a black person in Medan..that's coming from a British guy who lived in London, but after so long in Indonesia even I do a double take now, I'm sure ..my wife who is Indonesian will almost always comment if she sees someone.

I will not warn you off completely as I think it would be a sad reason not to come to Indonesia, at least to check it out first..just I think I will be a serious challenge for you and a test of your character, patience, and your confidence and self-belief...

salam

ezekiel

[Andror]

The management office of my old apartment complex in Kelapa Gading (PT Agung Podomoro Group) sent out a letter to all owners requesting that they not rent out their apartments to Africans at all, due to problems with fighting, police raids and generally vulgar behaviour (which was true of some of the Africans living there).

This was less than a year ago, so I'd imagine that racism towards black people is still alive and well in Jakarta.

Rough translation
5. Based on data that we have, a reduction in crime has occurred in the area of the apartment like fights, police raids because of psychotropics, insults to residents, especially to women (household maids and women residents) originally from residents who have the appearance of Africans. For this, we request Sir/Madam to not rent to them (Africans) whatever the reason.

[malu]

Once upon a time Indonesians would assume that any black male under 30 living in the country was a football or basketball player, as many professional teams actively recruited African players in the past. It's sad but true that now the first assumption is 'drug dealer'. This reputation is in part because there certainly have been quite a few African drugs mules picked up in recent years, and also because problems like the drugs trade are always perceived as being the fault of 'foreigners' and I suppose black people are easily distinguished as foreign. The major drug barons tend to be Indonesian nationals but this is often conveniently overlooked.

Once they get past the stereotype and get to know the person then attitudes will change, but you will probably tire of being stereotyped in the first place.

[rayman]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with what was said above.

If I'm not mistaken, most of the black people in Indonesia tend to be from Nigeria and Indonesians pereive them to be either involved in the drug trade of other scams such as credit cards and counterfeit money.

As noted above, black people are also not viewed as attractive and many Indonesian women will openly tell you they find the men downright scary.

Being a woman though, I think in many ways, you'll experience less racism than a black man. But there's no doubt you'll still feel it to a high degree.

I wouldn't go as far as laughing magpie and say avoid Indonesia all together. But just go knowing what to expect. If you develop a good group of friends, do some travelling, ignore the ignorance and maintain a positive attitude, then you could very well enjoy yourself. However, just go knowing the odds are stacked against you.

[Amani Renas]

[Amani Renas]

[Amani Renas]

[Amani Renas]

[Gamushara84]

I think a lot of people don't realize how much racism there is around the world. Unfortunately, it's a very real part of a black person's life.

Indonesia might seem like a ridiculous destination for a black person to go, but many places in the United States, the UK and other places are just as ridiculous.

Racism without challenge will never go away. If no black people go to Indonesia, where are Indonesians supposed to gain their knowledge of black people? I've had the misfortune of learning, through my travels, that different groups of people will sometimes spread ignorance and racism, sometimes without even meaning to. I've had to come in and pick up the pieces. With children, it's easier. With adults, who are set in their ways, it's not as easy.

Perhaps the United States will have a black president and black First Family. Perhaps there will be another black Nobel laureate in the coming year. Who knows? But if Indonesians have no first-hand knowledge of black people, they'll still keep gobbling up the same old racism and ignorance.

[laughing_magpie06]

I understand and realize that countries like the USA, Australia, Germany etc have had their problems with racism over the years but one thing i'd like to point out is I think the governments of western countries (if not a percentage of the people themselves) have understood there has been a problem and had to deal with it. Now we have equal rights commissions and affirmative action policies.
Here in Indonesia, however,a lot of racism is government sanctioned (not just individuals) and there are various examples of this. One is regarding foreign ownership and another is residency. At one stage there was a bill which wanted foreigners to pay $50,000 to marry local women because the government thought they needed 'protection' from western ideals and values.
Also have a look at the penalties handed out to foreign drug mules as opposed to local born terrorists. I could go on but one only needs to google and find out. There is a good website for expats and the hurdles they face. www.expat.or.id/

[hairyrambutan]

I made a conscious decision years ago that I would rather live in Indonesia than the UK because there is far less blatant racism here. In fact, much of the prejudice which I have encountered in this country has been on this forum.

Unfortunately, I have encountered anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial here - by individuals who had never met a Jew in their life. Additionally, there was a Muslim leader of a Muslim state who expressed similar sentiments not too long ago.

The bar on Jaksa that has put a blanket ban on Africans is not run by Indonesians.

[Amani Renas]

[Amani Renas]