Job Discussion Forums

[arioch36]

Back in New York, Every one I know says often, enunciating the "t"

When I came to China, I noticed all of my students keeping the "t" silent. Looked in several dictionaries. Sure enough, this was an allowable, perhaps even preferred, way of pronouncing often. Figured it must be a Brit thing, so I asked the Brit laowais here in Zhengzhou Henan, China. They all enunciated the "t". But they are mostly younger brits, under 40 (young )
Curious about who else keeps the "t" silent, why this is considered actually more common.

The other sound that all Chinese pronounce wrongly is the "s" in "vision" or "measure" (post alveolar fricative denotated by the "3" IPA symbol). They simply do not pronounce this sound as a rule. Measure becomes mea'ure
Anyone know why?


Don't know if the mods allow, also posted this in the general discussion forum to get answers from outside China

[AussieGuyInChina]

With regards to often, it possibly is a 'generation gap' difference amongst native speakers. I say off-en and, as best I can recall, so do other Australians my age.

I think students may have picked up the habit from their Chinese English teachers who were unaware that the 't' can / should be silent. Along the same lines, I find many students say 'chocolate'.

Apparently, some Chinese do not enunciate the first consonant sound of a word / syllable.

When I was in Wuxi (woo-shee), many locals said 'uxi (oo-shee). Same with Huadu (hwa-doo), which locals pronounced as 'uadu (wa-doo).

[Lorean]

[Lobster]

I voted for enunciate, but in reality I say the 't' in the classroom and drop it in casual speech.

RED

[The Voice Of Reason]

I used to say often. Students would question me on it and I would of course tell them both often and off-en are correct. They would sometimes ask me which was more common and I would tell them that I thought off-en was more often used (thinking of English on TV and in film (I was gonna write 'movie' then) and radio). I've since dropped (forgotten) the /t/, and I think that's because I hear off-en more often than often here in China (among Chinese and non-Chinese), compared to often more often than off-en in my neck of the woods (Yorkshire). I'm going home soon and I want my /t/ back, and not just the "I'm going t' pub" kind.

[lf_aristotle69]

[Lorean]

[lf_aristotle69]

Dude! (Dudette???) Did you actually read what you pasted in there? It's completely about another situation. NOWHERE does it say 'w' is silent.

Yi, Er, San, Si, U,.... I don't think so!

Go back to PinYin 101. Wuh-oo, Wuh-oo, WU.

LFA

[EDIT - Believe it, or not, it actually turns out that I'm wrong... DOH!!!]

[arioch36]

the "w" should not be silent

Of course we could vote

[Lorean]

Yes I read it. Read it more closely.

It does say:

[Lorean]

http://baike.baidu.com/view/1220371.htm

[arioch36]

Actually, I think both answers are misleading. "Xu", "yu", "wu" are all pronounced using sounds that are not in the english language. I don't have any "IPA" type to say how to pronounce it correctly.

But "Wu" "Xu" "yu" are not pronounced the same. The initial consonant does make a difference. It is not the hard "x, w, y" of the english language. If any one knows wade Giles they can chime in. but none of these is pronounced simply as "u". And of course, the "u" is quite different here from the english "u". These are not sounds a foreigner can say correctly just looking at the pinyin.

I think most foreigners who hear Wuxi or wu oe wei said would identify the inintial consonant as being "W". These web sites try to explain something that can not be written properly by "rules", just like Chinese students who try pronouncing words only by IPA

[Lorean]

The 'u' in both 'xu' and 'yu' does not exist in English. It is similar to the French 'u' in 'tu'. The IPA symbol is /y/.

The 'y' in 'yu' is silent. 'yu' is pronounced /y/ not /jy/
The 'x' in 'xu' is sort of a 'shhh' sound.

However, the 'u' in 'wu' is pronounced like 'ooooooo' (at least in Canadian English....). I believe its IPA is /u/.

[Lorean]

[arioch36]

i would say "Yu" is more like ee ew!