Job Discussion Forums

jestert79 · Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 44

What do you guys do with those students that keep advancing in level even though their ability is lacking? It seems like with every school I've worked at, they just get moved up regardless. I had a class of Intermediates once, but maybe 1/3 of them were actually Intermediate; the rest were still having trouble with the third-person -s and saying stuff like "Yesterday I go to shopping."

It's even worse with kids. There was a group of teens and a girl utterly failed the exam, and the teacher recommended she repeat the level. The mother talked to the director and said "If she's held back, she'll quit." She was moved up a level.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Money, I would think. It all boils down to keeping the students in the system, especially when talking about language schools, hogwans, and the like. I don't think there's much your average ELT can do without banging one's head against the wall.

Extraordinary Rendition · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:22 am Post subject:

Language acquisition has little to do with the syllabus. Don't expect production to follow the syllabus. Just make sure the learners are understanding some of what's happening in your class. That's all you can do - pitch your teacher talk to what you judge is the right level, and monitor and help the heck out of 'em. Your training and experience will have to be your guide...

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

becuase if students move up, then obviously they're learning and this means the school is good and gets more students.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

For me, it's a matter of integrity. On the Chinese board

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=60621&sid=46cb704ab2b1a7257fca45ec21e9ae10

this was talked about. I don't like teaching young children in China because the Chinese teachers tell every parent the same thing ... "your child is the best" So when I try talking honestly to a parent about their child, if it is anything negative, I am a bad teacher.

In the high school I worked at, promotion was automatic. This was not a huge problem to me, because in China, "graduation" from high school has little meaning. All that matters is how you do on the national test. Some students stay in high school an extra year to study for the national test. What is more of a problem is the syllabus. The syllabus and textbook are designed at a level far above most of the teachers, much less the students. The text I used five years ago was helpful to the students. Now the textbook is far too complicated, too many ideas for one class, and just causes frustration for the teacher and student. But the school must use the text and syllabus to show that the students are being educated to that level (which they are not, unreachable goals stunt the growth)
I have seen the same problem at language schools, where students go through a series of textbooks, and are always promoted to the next level regardless. I can't work in such a program

I can't do anything about the rest of the system. But I will give students the grades they deserve. If I fail a student, I expect the school to back me up. Which maybe is why I have been working my uni for the past several years. Total support from the dep't. Student failing must pay money and retake the final test, or the entire semester. Otherwise, I would leave

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

The school I worked at did't have automatic promotion. It happened by giving the students extra work until the teacher got tired of grading it and finally changed the grade to pass.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

I was at my favourite college (this college was forced to merge with a bigger college that had wasted money and was bankrupt, end of the good college)
if you failed a student, the teacher was supposed to spend 8 hours with the student in some way, having the student come to the office, come to extra classes.
great in theory, if the student tried but failed because they simply didn't understand the subject matter well enough. But we know, the students who fail, fail because they don't put in any effort

11:59 · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Students Endlessly Pushed Up

Thwartley · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 34

Kootvela · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 513 Location: Lithuania

I just followed the syllabus omitting the areas that were to difficult for the level or adapting them a lot. In private language schools you cannot do anything about moving up students because it's a money issue. As a private teacher, I have more freedom to say what I think and I can cater for my students better.

MO39 · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Students Endlessly Pushed Up

Extraordinary Rendition · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject:

Because the time can be expressed with the adverb. Thais have that tendency, and I've been told Thai doesn't have verb tenses, that time is expressed with adverbs. I would be very surprised if any of the Chinese dialects had verb tenses. I do the same thing in French, I can get the meaning across with the infinitive, so I often don't bother to conjugate the verb Embarassed

.

The incorrect production doesn't mean they're not progressing. Often (usually) production lags behind receptive understanding. For example, I'd bet that same student would have no problem encountering "went" while reading or listening, and may even produce it when writing carefully. If your theory of language acquisition includes the concept that consciousness raising about accurate production is helpful, one technique is "Grammar Dictation", see Weintraub (Susan, I think).

11:59 · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Students Endlessly Pushed Up

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject:

Maybe we should all start speaking Chinese or something! Smile

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

What do you do with the students who keep moving up, or is the question more like, what do you do with the system that permits that?

I had exactly that sort of thing for 3.5 years in a conversation school setting. Nothing much the teachers could do about the system. It was a management decision. As for dealing with students, treat them no differently than the level they were supposed to be at. If they don't like it, they have the option of quitting. If they hang on and drag down the class, do what you can to complain to management, but don't get your hopes up.

As for teaching in a private HS, many students did cr@ppy, yet were given the green light to pass, by the local teachers, not the foreign ones. Again, zilch that we could do about the system.