Job Discussion Forums

[Surfdude18]

My wife and I often discuss possible job locations after I complete my PGCE course. I tell her that those so-qualified begin on around 30,000 HKD a month in Hong Kong. She turns her nose up and claims that 30,000 a month is only 'the same' as 3000 RMB a month in the PRC.

Is there any truth to this? I have to admit it does sound like a bit of an exaggeration to me. I mean, surely rice doesn't cost 20 HKD for a 'jin' in Hong kong, and surely a bottle of beer doesn't cost 200 HKD in a bar. I can believe that accommodation is a lot more expensive, but beyond that, it wouldn't surprise me if a great deal of things were not actually that much more pricey than the mainland.

[11:59]

Surfdude, there are two major and persistent myths about HK. The first is that the place is international and/or cosmopolitan, and the second is that the SAR is expensive. In reality HK is extremely homogeneous (around 98.5% of those in HK are HK Chinese, with the largest group of foreign nationals actually being Filipinas), and, as you rightly suspect many items in HK are exactly the same price as on the mainland (which of course makes such goods vastly cheaper for us in relative terms) and some items are actually cheaper than on the mainland (thus making them cheaper for us in real terms). Even for the few items that are more expensive (and they are few and far between) you have to bear in mind that, as the average Hong Konger earns some eight times more than your average mainlander, unless the goods or services are some eight times more expensive they are still ultimately cheaper for us.

If 1 RMB is equivalent to some $10HK, that is, if as your wife claims, $30,000 HK a month is equal to 3,000 RMB, how comes it that many Hong Kongers purchase foreign property and passports yet very few mainlanders seem able to? Also, if this 'exchange' rate is valid, how come NETs here will often have four or five lavish foreign holidays a year while most FTs in China are lucky to drum up enough cash for a single break within the borders of the PRC?

Bear in mind also that many of us, (myself included) like taking HK currency to China for banquets, etc., so we can get the best of both worlds: a first class First World income in HK and Third World prices in China (though fewer and fewer goods and services in China are truly cheap anymore).

You mention accommodation, but again, you must remember that for most of us here it does not matter one iota whether our rent is $8,000 HK a month or $80,000 HK a month as our employers pay it for us.

Sorry to shatter your wife's illusions. It can often be hard for Mainlanders to accept that fellow Chinese living just across the border from them can earn so much more money, both in relative and real terms. I see this a lot with Mainlanders who now flock here on the IVS (especially with high-tech products and western import items; remember that HK has no import tax or duties and no sales tax and also sheer scale of economy plays a major role). I suppose they simply don't want to face up to reality for, if they did, they would have to ask themselves why, if it is possible here in HK it is not possible over there in China proper.

[mictweety]

I can't say for sure, but the last time I went to Hong Kong and China (a few years ago). The RMB and HK$ were about the same. I am assuming it is still the same situation, because my family still goes into China often.

[Surfdude18]

[Marcoregano]

[Surfdude18]

You're quite right; a beer in a bar in China averages about 20-30 RMB in the smaller cities, and can reach 50-60 in Beijing/Shanghai et al.

[11:59]

Marcoregano, those 'government' figures are highly unreliable as many Hong Kongers travel in and out of (and reside in) the SAR on foreign passports and don't use their ID card unless they have to.

[Marcoregano]

That's true, but the official figures also mask long-stay expats who now have permanent ID. Of the official figure mentioned above, Brits (for example) only make up around 14,000 - a figure which I'm sure you'll agree is ridulously low. The real expat figure is almost certainly higher - perhaps over 10% of total population.

[puiwaihin]

If you look at Central, it might appear that the expat population is around 10%, but that's an area that is going to attract people to a common point. Walking down the streets of TST will also be misleading because you are going to see a large number of tourists, not residents, browsing shops.

A better way to judge population would be taking the MTR. Would you say 1 in 10 passengers is an expat? Get away from the tourist sections and go further out into HK and you'll start seeing far fewer expats. You probably wont' see many Phillipinas (unless it's a Sunday), but that's because they are usually indoors working, so their visibility is considerably lower.

As for prices in HK vs. prices in China, that also depends on where in China. I worked in Xinjiang 新疆 where local people's typical income for a month was around 2000RMB and you could rent an apartment for 1000RMB (that was about 7 years ago now, so things likely have changed). But that's probably about half of what it would be in a less remote location.

But let's say you get a job making about 10,000RMB/month in Guangzhou. For that city that's a fairly good income and you can live there very comfortably. Just about as comfortably as in HK, but without HK's convenience. That's fine if good living conditions are all you want. But outside of China, your buying power is 1/5 of what it is in China. Want to build a nest egg? You'll have less to be able to put away.

If you want to save money, a 30k HKD/month job is light years ahead of the 10k RMB/month job. If you go to the edges of the empire to take a 5k RMB/month job where there actually is a 10:1 ratio, you can still live like a king with RMB to spare, but you will have even less available to hoard away.

[Marcoregano]

1 in 10 on the MTR an expat? Absolutely, so long as you include Filipinas, Indonesians, Thais, Indians, Pakistanis, Nepalese, Japanese etc. And perhaps more than 1 in 10 if you include Chinese born in Canada, Australia, UK...

[ChrisRose]

At present the HK$ is pegged to the US$ which is halfway past the U-bend.

Inflation in HK is rising and will continue to rise rapidly. At present the exchange rate of the RMB to HK $ is changing rapidly too.

As the RMB increases in value in reference to the HK$ the salaries offered on the mainland appear to be increasing too.

[once again]

Can you please post some figures of how many Hong Kong people travel in and out by using passports and not their id cards, and the source please.
Thanks

[ChrisRose]

Forgive me for jumping in,

I believe that you need your passport if you are not an HK Permanent Resident.

I could be wrong, but the HKID card is an identification document, and not a travel document. It might remove the requirement for a visa but I doubt it removes the need for a passort.

[Surfdude18]

Just to go back to my OP for a second, how much would the more 'basic' things cost in HK - e.g. bus fares, a pound of rice, vegetables, etc. (After all, these are what your average mainland person thinks about when classifying somewhere as 'cheap' or 'expensive' IME)

[hkteach]

"I believe that you need your passport if you are not an HK Permanent Resident.

I could be wrong, but the HKID card is an identification document, and not a travel document. It might remove the requirement for a visa but I doubt it removes the need for a passort."

Yes and no Chris.
A HK ID card is also issued to those who are not permanent residents - holders of work visas also get ID cards.

The 'new style' cards include the person's thumbprint and allow the owner to enter and leave HK at the special turnstiles at the airport, Macau ferry terminal and at other border crossings - all that is required is to insert card into the slot, turnstile opens and then thumb is placed on a scanner after which the person exits the turnstile.
No passport is required so yes, in respect of entering or leaving HK, the ID card replaces a passport.