Job Discussion Forums

[FemaleNomad]

I've written the syllabus for a Pre-School class in a private school in Poland. The material covers 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week. In total I've written enough material for 6 months. This is something that my boss asked me to do even though this was not intially part of my contract. Now, my boss wants to know how much money I expect to get for the job and then we can begin 'haggling' from there. I have no idea what to say.

Any advice? I really don't know where to begin. Anything would be helpful right now.

The Pre-School is private and it charges 1000 zloty per child per month which is a huge amount here (right outside of the Warsaw) as the average salary is probably 1800 zloty a month --- so the clients are upper class to say the least. This is just so you get an idea of what kind of a school it is. Also, I'm not sure if this makes a difference but I am the only native speaker here.

[Glenski]

Seems you and your boss should have made an agreement beforehand, but that's 20-20 hindsight talking.

What is your time worth? How long did it take? Exactly what "material" did you produce in this syllabus? Was it in one language or both?

[naturegirl321]

At all the schools I've taught at, I've been required to create the syllabus and haven't gotten anything extra. It just is part of the job description.

BUt if it's something extra, figure out how many hours you've put into it and then multiple it by how much you charge per hour, mayube ask for a bit more and then haggle from there

[gaijinalways]

Also, what size are the classes that will be taught with this material?　Are you planning to update it later (assuming you stay at this job)?

[FemaleNomad]

Hi Glenski --
Yes, hindsight is 20/20 -- it's my first year teaching so I learned ALOT to say the least... especially here in Poland.

She asked me to only produce it in English. Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out -- how much is my time worth? I get paid 5,000 zloty per month (that's for a 40 hour work week) -- so in Poland that's what my time is worth I suppose. Should I calculate my regular hourly rate for the syllabus work? What's in the syllabus is a detailed plan for each and every day taht I teach -- I write the topic, aims, vocab, materials and activities (3-4) for each day.

[FemaleNomad]

Gaijinalways --
the material can be used for any amount of students. the class size that is allowed in the school is 12 per class -- so I guess that's what it will be used for. I am leaving the position at the end of June and not coming back-- so there will be no updates.

[spiral78]

It sounds as though you've done a substantial amount of work! The truth is that you should probably be paid at your regular hourly rate for the approximate number of hours you put in - but having experience writing curriculum myself, I am aware that this may be unrealistic...

Did you work on this project over a period of some months? Can you say, for example, that it took you three or four or six months of overtime to produce it?

It seems to me that it would certainly be worth at least a month's salary extra, but I can't really judge.

One question - does your employer now have access to this body of work, whether he/she pays you for it or not? Or do you still have personal possession of all or most of it? That might make it easier to bargain...

[fluffyhamster]

I guess it took you no more than a month to write in outline if not develop in detail, so ask for a month's pay and see what your boss thinks. (Edit: I see Spiral78 has said more or less the same thing! But I guess that you were or have been asked to submit the stuff so that the employer can see there's something, anything, worth paying for, and unless you are the only one who'll be using it, and you keep it under lock and key, don't allow students to take away any original handouts etc for the duration of your stay, I'm not sure how you can realistically hope to 'keep possession of it' if you fail to get a fair price for it).

I must say though that if I were your boss (charging parents a lot for the schooling) I'd've got the syllabus in order beforehand (i.e. saved previous lesson plans - assuming there were native teachers there before you - or at least purchased a range of materials) and saved you totally reinventing the wheel, but probably this boss wanted to get some idea of what you'd be teaching is all (though next thing you know, you might be being told that it isn't up to scratch or not quite what they wanted, and certainly not worth a month's pay). Are other (non-native) teachers going to be using it in their classes, alongside yours? And are you going to be seeing a number of classes each day rather than one class all day (which is what one could be forgiven for thining when you say you have stuff now to 'cover eight hours per day'!). If you are the only one teaching the English and/or have a number of classes with which you can repeat the same lesson and adjust the level etc, then I wonder why you were asked to plan in advance and in presumably such detail (I think it is better to be planning a few lessons in advance, so that you can put more effort into more immediate details, and even then, I myself have sometimes been wont to change impending lessons totally!) - if the school perhaps wanted a specialist in childhood education, then that is what they should have hired.

Ideally, syllabuses/curriculums are already in place for those teachers expecting and possibly needing them (at least initially), with deviation is welcomed by those individuals who can come up with better. Teachers should not be asked to submit more than a few lesson plans at any one time (e.g. for observation or in-service training and assessment purposes), and certainly should not be expected to be practically full-time syllabus and materials developers too in their spare time (or did you have a few weeks "spare" prior to the term and classes properly beginning LOL).

[naturegirl321]

[soapdodger]

I would predict this will all end in tears. Getting money out of a Polish school is like getting a stick off a bull terrier. My bet is you'll get 1000 zl tops. I'm sure you have learned alot of lessons doing your first EFL job in Poland. Seems you've learned well if you're not going back.

[fluffyhamster]

If you work in state schools (or schools that follow national curriculums) then I can see some need for the accountability, but the paperwork and box-ticking can and does I think have an impact (ironically) on the short-term teaching quality (I wouldn't particularly want to be a state teacher in the UK, for example, even though the pay at least is better than in TEFL abroad generally). Another part of the reason why I take a bit of a dim view of submitting endless plans is that a) I take my own planning seriously enough without the need for all that and b) if it is for OTHER teachers to make use of without any real scratching of my back in return (my plans have often been better than what I'm given back, when I'm given anything back), well, to put it bluntly, scr*w them! (That being said, I like others am not averse to sharing some ideas e.g. here on Dave's, for free, when there's time).

[FemaleNomad]

I'll try to answer all of your questions as best as I can. When I walked into this job I wasn't told the whole truth -- as I suspect happens in many places (and from what I've now been reading.. many places in Poland). So, there's nothing I can do about that now. The school is very small. There are two teachers: yours truly(me) and the boss. I run the Pre-K part of the school so it's the same children all 8 hours, 5 days a week.

Currently, she only has outlines of my lesson plans. They are not set out in great detail. She asked me to rewrite the outlines into a detailed syllabus -- she showed me how she wanted it to look and that's how I'm writing it. This week she'd like to see some of the work I've been doing I guess to deem what it's worth and whether it's to her liking. In the end, if I really wanted to be a jerk, I could just leave her with the lesson outlines and take my detailed syllabus with me -- not that I'm planning on this.

Another thing -- there were no lesson plans before I got here b/c as it turns out this is the first year that the Pre-K was opened. Previously, she had taught for 8 years - various levels and age groups but never under the age of 7. So she opened up a section of the school, turned it into a Pre-K/nursery and hired me to teach there. So there has been no one before me.

I have been working on this project for the last few months and I'm sure it takes me longer than normal to write these things as I'm not used to doing it in such detail. So it's hard for me to say how many hours I've worked on it exactly.

Hope that brings some more insight into the situation. I appreciate all of your help and advice.

[spiral78]

To re-iterate, it seems well worth at least a month's extra pay. Fluffyhamster has said basically the same thing.

Maybe start with that as a basis?

I think (hope) soapdodger will be wrong in this case, since your boss has indicated she expects to pay SOMETHING for all your hard work and expertise in writing curriculum.

Naturegirl, your experience is not universal. I've been paid for curriculum design in a range of schools from private language schools to universities. Yes, it's unpaid, expected work in many places. But not all, by any means.

[naturegirl321]

[Stephen Jones]

As we don't know what your relationship with your boss is we can't advise you.