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[PyRoT]

Hi,

Some recent events have made me question my pronunciation. See I came to Australia when I was 8 so maybe I missed some lessons but I doubt I am wrong.

I was recently recording some pronunciation lessons for little kids at my school and on a few words, my Chinese boss interrupted me and said I was pronouncing them wrong.

He insisted that "skate" or "school" is pronounced s'g'ate / s'g'ool and not s'k'ate / s'k'ool. He was dead certain about this and said everyone in China learns this. I later asked some other students including adults and all told me that is what they learned at school. Anyway, he forced me to pronounce it with a clear g (sss...g...ate...sgate). I was also apparently wrong when pronouncing sport as I was not say s'b'ort.

Is my English wrong or something? I have always heard people pronounce these words with a k, not a g. Even the pronunciation guide in dictionaries has the k. My boss just says that you pronounce the k as a g. I never learned these pronunciation guides but I'm pretty sure if they meant g they would not write k.

What's going on?

[Anda]

http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=7648

[bearcanada]

'Skate' is 'skate', 'school' is 'school', and your Chinese boss doesn't know what he's talking about. The Chinese educational system has no shortage of misinformation about English usage and pronunciation.

Tell him I said so.

.

[PyRoT]

Thanks, I'll make sure to not back down again. See, I am often very open minded / willing to change my ways if wrong..so I caved in to the pressure during recording. I feel bad for the kids that listen to the tape. It's harder to pronounce sport with a b and skate with a g. ...noobs...

[arioch36]

Sometimes , rarely but sometimes, there is a Brit US difference. "Schedule" is a good one.
it is frustrating. I have been teaching in China for a while, was a grad student in the states, but still have students that I must waste time arguing a basic english point that they are just wrong about.
A dictionary comes in handy at times like these. Also acomputer nearby, where you can quickly have an online dictionary pronounce the word
Welcome to the TEFL world

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Tomato

To MAY to
To MAH to

Often

Off Ten
Off En

Tell him there is no such thing as the 'proper' way to pronounce words. Different countries pronounce words differently. I would tell him:

If he didn't want an Australian, he should have hired an American.

[Surfdude18]

I'm British and I say 'sgate'.

[Lorean]

Your boss is misinformed.

Aspirated consonants are pronounced with a puff of air. Unapsirated consonants have no air.

Voiced consonants are pronounced in concert with the vocal chords vibrating. Unvoiced consonants have no vibration of the vocal chords.

We can say there are four types
voiced aspirated
unvoiced aspirated (p, t, k)
voiced unaspirated (b, d, g)
unvoiced unaspirated

Unvoiced unaspirated consonants occur in English when a consonant is preceded by another consonant in the same syllable. (spark, school, skunk, stop). So for example, the 'p' in park is aspirated, whereas the 'p' in spark is unaspirated.

In your example the 'k' in school is unaspirated (Actually, it is lightly aspirated). It is different from a /g/ because /g/ is voiced.

Chinese only has unvoiced strongly aspirated consonants AND unvoiced unaspirated consonants. So to a Chinese the English unvoiced unaspirated 'k' sounds like a 'g'.

[mcl sonya]

it's not so common to have a voiced and unvoiced consonant right next to each other whatever the language. consonants tend to influence each other, so even if school was somehow "sgool" people would still pronounce skool. for example, absorb - instead of pronouncing it as ab sorb, we say ab zorb. in other European languages with this word, the voicing influences each other the other way, like in French they say ap sorb. it has to do with how long it physically takes the vocal chords to stop vibrating to go from making a voiced sound to an unvoiced sound (this also explains why, across languages, unvoiced consonants tend to be aspirated more than voiced consonants). it is actually rather hard/unnatural to say sgool, while it is easy/natural to say skool. it also might not be so easy for you to hear this difference since these represent the same sort of sound for you (for example, English speakers have a hard time hearing the difference between the two l's, while Chinese speakers hear the difference and as a result tend to pronounce one of the l's as "w"), but if you looked at a sound wave analysis of this you'd see it's physically there.

I always lose people when I start talking about linguistics, the worst is when I do it in class and the students actually look scared or offended that I'm bringing this up again... So I hope this actually helps you, the next time you talk to your boss and he dares to correct you into something so wrong.

I didn't even know this was how they're being taught, but what Lorean says makes sense. if their p's are all aspirated in their native language (like the p's in the beginning of an English word), it makes sense to teach Chinese students to say unaspirated b's instead. it's what they already know, and then, because the voicing influences each other it will be a p anyway, even if they're aiming to pronounce a b. either that or everyone is so wrong they're kind of right.

[Wonderful Yunqi!!]

I'm not too sure about all of the details involved with the topics that the previous 2 folks broached, but see Jammish and raise/rise him 3.

Based on his authority regarding British English in relation to my own, it seems as if the Boss is still stuck in an imperialist times mindset. The Lord knows - I love my mother and respect her long, illustrious history in regards to the English language, but wonder what the people think?

I tip my hat to the the British Council and the new revolution, but, it seems to me that the tide has changed and most of the kids prefer to learn about American culture and want to acquire our accents.

For example - I told a group of students who "will" complete their studies in England that yesterday was "National Kissing Day" in the UK. I also told them about the acronym ADIDAS.

Next week we may discuss the various Olympic sports. Such a breath of fresh air.

Either way, back to the topic at hand. The parents and bosses are old and archaic. Most of the machines that the kids bring to the class need updating. But, I have noticed lately that the newer models define some slang.

Would you like a fag? I'm free.

"...and freedom tastes like reality. I hope I don't get fooled again."

Yunqi

[arioch36]

Lorean, MCL, while your academic training and reasoning and logic may fly in your precious little western countries, don't try your oldfangeled clever logic here in Chinese schools. We know what our teacher taught us (based on what his teacher taught him)


Whiner

[buddy bradley]

On the plus side, you seem to respect the opinion of your boss.

On the, uh, minus side, you sir are severely lacking in confidence skills. No worries there though; even Ed Kemper admits to that flaw.

Have a rice day!

[bearcanada]

Surfdue18, You said, "I'm British and I say 'sgate'."

Yes, but the reason you do that is not because your pronunciation is correct. It's due to careless speech, a lazy tongue and slurred sounds.

You can do that if you want, and I for one sure don't care, but you don't want to tell us that its the right way.

.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Nowadays, there simply isn't a wrong or right way to pronounce any word.

I still leave "tomato" as a prime example.

[arioch36]

Whiner