Job Discussion Forums

[biffinbridge]

Ok, I don't usually post on the GDF so for what it's worth, I've been teaching for 13 years in Europe, the Gulf and Libya. In the last 8 years I've specialised in teaching oil company trainees and currently enjoy a field position in the Sahara, which is great as I get 3 weeks holiday every 6 weeks and all my flights are paid.

Now, we've all had to teach using materials that are culturally inappropriate at some time or other. Given that most materials writers seem to be middle-aged women who love to fill coursebooks with references to drinking wine and sex filled soap operas, it's no surprise really. The same women also fill books with names like Xavier, Orlando and Anastasia....but that's another point.

What astounds me is some cultures' total lack of awareness of the world outside. Specifically, I'm talking about the Muslim world. This week alone I've had to deal with students who don't know who Picasso was, can't name one famous person in the coursebook (surely everyone knows Mandela), can't conceive that Jesus died or that angels aren't real, had never heard of Porsche cars, didn't know what Christmas is, didn't know that there are no deserts in the UK, scribbled out pictures of women in the supplementary materials, refused to discuss birthdays as they are 'forbidden' and ran out of the room when I tried to do a song (devil music obviously)........ and so on and so forth. When do you cease labelling someone as 'culturally unaware' and just start thinking that he's a total mingmong?

Any similar experiences out there?

[spiral78]

We had 60 near-total mingmongs sent to us in Canada by the Saudi government...but as they were on our territory, we had more rights to shock them into the 21st. century....

How in the world can you be sensitive to and protective of such extreme lack of knowledge (never mind understanding or acceptance, heaven forbid) of the outside world???!!

[Justin Trullinger]

Don't take it the wrong way, Mr inbridge, but if you're in their country, who's the total mingmong here?

But seriously- I understand how hard it can be. Are there any textbooks that have been used successfully before? Do you have any colleagues you can call on for materials ideas? Because you're in a doozy of a hard spot. If you want to help to educate them, and I mean that word in a general world culture sense, as well as a speaking English sense, it just doesn't do any good to make them run away.

In response to your direct question- I stop thinking that "culturally unaware" covers it when I KNOW they've had opportunities to become more aware, and have wasted them. I'm not sure what a mingmong is, but I guess that if you're culturally unaware on purpose, you're getting there.

An example; a student once asked me why I'm bald, and if everybody is bald where I'm from. I'm writing this off as culturally unaware, and nothing else, because, well, little Pamela is five. (And extremely sweet!) I have, rather strangely, been asked the same question by seemingly sophisticated adults, with access to the news media, television, and hollywood movies. I think we're getting into mingmong territory here.


BEst,
Justin

[mandalayroad]

The US can be pretty provincial as well. How many Americans know anything about Islam except that it seems "dangerous" to them? How many Americans can even identify Iraq on a world map? Heck, how many can find the US on a world map? Provincialism is not just the provenance of Arabs and Muslims, it's pretty universal for those not well-traveled or curious, which is unfortunately most people around the world. I remember being in Singapore and a woman asking me if we were modern enough to have 7-11s in the US....

[guty]

While they might have no need for Christmas, Porsches or Nelson Mandela, do they at least know 15 different types of sand? Or how to find a lost camel, or the best place to drill for oil? Or the history of their own people?

I would say they are total mingmongs if they have no curiosity for learning anything at all.

We have all known individuals like that, I have even worked with/for a few!
Its just unfortunate that some cultural upbringings produce more of these per capita than others.

Biff: no desserts in the UK? What about spotted dick? Or jam roly poly?

[Sheikh Inal Ovar]

[Stephen Jones]

Why should Muslims know more about Christmas than Christians about eid, Diwali or Vesak?

Perhaps Biffin could publish the interviews on leading Islamic calligraphers he carried out with the informed locals as they left the football match.

Why should everybody know Mandela? Your list of famous people is a list that comes from being bombarded by Western media.

Why should they discuss birthdays with you? They're a western protestant tradition. Do you reckon a load of hicks from the US or UK would be interested in knowing what animal they take after according to the Chinese horoscopes?

They can't concieve Angels aren't real. 52% of the US population believes in Creationism and even more in UFOs.

Yea, Prsche's are just what you need for driving round the sand dunes.
MOD EDIT

[biffinbridge]

I think I agree with Justin's post on this one.

MOD EDIT Before I ever set foot in the Middle East, I knew that Mecca was a holy place, I knew that Muslims didn't drink alcohol and I knew that pork was forbidden. I also knew where certain countriss where in the world and had some kind of broadly based general knowledge. The examples I gave were just the ones that immediately came to mind.

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

Let's stay on topic and address the message and not the messenger. If not, the next step will be more than a warning.

[Jetgirly]

I definitely agree that the lack of cultural knowledge your students demonstrated would be frustrating... but incorporating a song? Even teaching Language Arts "here" in Canada I know that I have to check with my Muslim students before incorporating music into our lessons. I've certainly never heard my teenagers call it "devil music", most of them just say it's against their religion and they offer to leave the classroom (I would never allow them to leave- I simply modify that lesson and remember not to use music for the rest of the term). I think it's kind of funny that you're talking about their lack of cultural awareness while including something fundamentally in opposition to their religious beliefs in your lesson. In the future, maybe try to bring more cultural references from around the world into your lessons, just to give them context, not as assessable learning goals. It would be kind of win-win. (Then again, you're talking to someone who has zero textbooks or resources and gets to/has to make up all her lessons from scratch.)

[SueH]

I had a couple of Chinese students once (in the UK) who could not place anywhere on a map of the world, including China.. One of them was charming, but the other was also not aware of cultural norms on using a pisspot in his dorm room when the toilet was two doors down the corridor. He was also unaware about norms on personal hygiene, which produced some interesting responses when he was included in a class of mainly UAE students.

On the question of music and Muslim students: as ever it's not a universal negative response so it is a possibility if you check first.

[thelmadatter]

I found this thread curious on a couple of levels... as a middle-aged woman, I have yet to see any of these wine-and-soap-opera textbooks the OP mentions.. Im sure I would find them a great read!!!

On a more serious note, I can understand the frustration in dealing with students that insulated... but on top of that, having to watch every single step you make or word you say because just about anything could be construed as a grave insult.... (mmmm sounds like life in many places in the US) ... I mean we are talking about the part of the world where a teacher was jailed (among crowds calling for her execution no less) for letting her students name a teddy bear "Mohammed". Can anyone guess that there is no amount of money that would lure me to the Muslim world???

But I guess that makes me one of those nasty American "mingmongs" (where the heck does that word come from? ... or is my middle-age showing again?) who thinks that Islam is dangerous.

[johnslat]

Dear thelmadatter,
Well, according to the "Urban Dictionary":

Mingmong
Simply a mixture of a Minger and a Mong, basically a disgustingly FUGLY person that should only be allowed out in daylight if they live on a council estate.
E.G. Eeuuugh!!! Look at that mingmong over the road

But having worked in Islamic countries (Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Iran) for over twenty years, I'd have to say that I don't think that Islam is dangerous - just the fanatic extremists who misinterpret it. And every religion, including Christianity, has such whackos.
Actually, I think that thinking Islam is dangerous is dangerous.

Regards,
John

[thelmadatter]

from context, I interpreted mingmong as a complete idiot or moron.... the dictionary definition doesnt seem to apply... could have both meanings... its usually not a big leap from ugly to idiot semantically since humans seem to equate the two for some reason.

[mandalayroad]

As johnslat states above, every religion has its share of wackos, and thinking Islam is inherently dangerous is dangerous.