Job Discussion Forums

[samhouston]

I will be moving to Wenzhou in the coming weeks, if all goes well with the bureaucrats...and the arctic flight in a thirty-five year-old 747. I've searched the board, but intel is sketchy.

Does anyone live there? Is it a decent place or what? I'm not much on nightlife shenanigans or drinking away my meager pay. I'm more interested in how filthy the city and sky are, decent coffee, and what to expect with the availability, or lack thereof, western amenities.

Slap me some skin.

[Moon Over Parma]

So, you accepted the job first, then ask about the location now? Bad move. I hope you did not accept work for the City College of Wenzhou University. Be wary of it. They lure Fts in by claiming they are "Wenzhou University," which they are not. They are merely under the Wenzhou University umbrella. WU will sponsor your visa and house you, but that's about all you get from WU. The rest of your time will be spent babysitting juvenile delinquents and future gang bosses whose families are buying students diplomas. The City College (located far from any city, in a dusty, vacuous "town" called Chashan - literally one hour to 45 minutes from the "downtown" area of the Lucheng district) hides behind the Wenzhou University affiliation and I know of several unhappy FTs currently working there. Ask any Wenzhou local about the "City College of Wenzhou University" and you'll hear horror stories. PM me and I can put you in touch with a few of the teachers planning their escape from the City College and let them tell you every detail on why they are getting out, and in their own words.


Here's some information about Wenzhou:

Wenzhou is not a good spot for university work. 95% of the universities/colleges are located in a prefab "University town," called Chashan, a good hour away from civilization by bus. All of the FTs (from Wenzhou University, City College of Wenzhou University and Oujang College - all under the Wenzhou University visa sponsorship umbrella, too) are housed together in a seven year old building that is rapidly deteriorating. Chashan is regularly turning off the water for 24 hour periods as they try to revamp its antiquated pipeline, and some of the FTs are experiencing upwards of 48 hour periods without water.

Working for Wenzhou University directly is the best of the lot. It's a public school. It pays the same as its other branch schools. However, you'll teach upwards of 40-50 students per class. The City College is technically private, but WU sponsors its FT visas and provides the same housing. City College students are the worst of the lot. Many reportedly buy their degrees. All of its students scored low on national exams and it is one of the most expensive schools in China. You'll be teaching students who could care less, and the curriculum is reportedly poor. The only positive about it is that they split classes into 25 students. The negative is that the administration doesn't really care. There is a Canadian couple working there that has a racket going where they take all of the side jobs. Nice folks, but totally in the pocket of the school. One FT is leaving at the end of the semester and the new guy that joined them in the winter was reportedly happy and productive but rumor has it the city college's FAO and the general demeanor of the students have burned him out. The last time I talked to him he was already convinced he was going to move on once his contract expired. He wanted to stay in Wenzhou but since all but two of Wenzhou's colleges/universities fall under the Wenzhou University banner he has written it off.

The two schools not under the Wenzhou University banner are the Wenzhou Medical College and a school way out in the Longwen district. The Medical College pays less than the schools under the Wenzhou university banner but it does provide the teachers with alright apartments off campus (and in the city!). It buses teachers from downtown and back, and for off hours there's apparently nothing going on in Chashan, so the Medical College understands the importance of housing its foreign teachers in acceptable conditions.

So, the two major universities are in the "Chashan University Town." This dusty drag of nothing lies way off into the south west of Wenzhou. On a rare, good day you can see the mountains. On most days you will see Beijing-like levels of smog. On most days you can smell burning plastic, which creates most of the smog in that area.

Wenzhou itself is a rather sprawling place. You could end up in Yueching or other places that are considered "Wenzhou," but are so far from the city that they are practically small cities unto themselves. As for Chashan, the majority of buses running there cut off between 6 to 8pm and the only way back in are taxis, though it's hard to catch a taxi from Chashan into the city. So, at least the Wenzhou Medical College's employees are living in the city and can enjoy their weekends. Of the six foreign teachers I know living out there, only two are happy. Of course, they also proselytize to their students, so read into that what you will.


The only problem is that the city is unremarkable and the nightlife was pretty dead. You will pay more than Shanghai prices for food and drink in Wenzhou, too, but without the diversity and quality that comes with such prices. The two pubs of note were La Luna and the Blue Shell. Both are foreign owned, friendly, comfortable places. Weeknights were as reliable as weekends when it comes to meeting expats there. La Luna has very good Tex Mex and its owner and his girlfriend are probably the nicest people you'll meet in Wenzhou.

There are no large hypermarts in Wenzhou of note. There are a handful of medium-sized hypermarts with limited selection and overinflated prices (higher than in similar marts in Shanghai and Beijing). All either fall under the "Trust Mart," or "Century Mart" banner.

A wonderful, insanely high priced foreign food market is located underground at the D & L Shopping Center, downtown. It is near a Trust Mart and a 24 hour McDonalds, as well as one of the city's few (of two?) movie theaters. There's also an overpriced, local pub there that is mostly empty, a New Zealand ice cream shop that is one of two places in town for genuine, western ice cream, a Pizza Hut, and a stone's throw from Cowboy Eric's Pub #2. Cowboy Eric's Pub #1 is smaller than #2 and located up the street from La Luna. Cowboy Eric is actually a Taiwanese man. His bars are definitely similar to Taiwanese pubs I used to go to in Taipei and while not particularly popular amongst foreigners, he does bring in the locals and manages to do okay business. Eric is easy to spot because he's the only Asian man wearing a genuine cowboy hat in all of Wenzhou.

Wenzhou's nightlife is pretty dead. Foreigners tend to hit the bars to hang out and relax. The nightclubs worth seeing are located near the waterfront (a short cab ride from the D & L Plaza) although they are pretty weak by China's standards, not to mention what you'd appreciate in the west.

Buses in Wenzhou were 2RMB last I checked. They tend to run until 11pm downtown, but if you're working in the Chashan University Town, then you can expect buses in and out to stop around 6-8pm. I was told the university classes for FTs tend to finish around 5:30pm in the winter, and 6pm in the summer. I think a bus into parts of Ouhai (the district the universities fall into) still runs until 10 pm, but it won't get you downtown. Taxis from Lucheng back into the university town reportedly run upwards of 25RMB. 25RMB is also what you can expect to pay for a good beer at a pub downtown, though 3% local beers (2.5% if you're talking "Snow" beer) and watered down Budweiser can be had for 15RMB in the bottle.

Shopping in Wenzhou is not particularly hot. Wu Ma Street is simply littered with beggars, pedicabs, and endless knock off clothing shops. The largest branch of Xinhua Bookstore is located there as well, so there is a plus.

DVD shops in Wenzhou sell discs on average for 13-25 RMB. There are three (out of forty) shops that sell them for reasonable prices of 8rmb (which is reasonable for Wenzhou). The selection is pretty lame. Foreign television is rampant on China's pirate circuit, but not in Wenzhou, where Friends, Prison Break, The 4400 and Lost are about all you'll find (and in "best," I mean the crappiest crap of foreign television history).

There are two computer markets in town. The "old computer market" as locals call it, and the "new computer market," as locals tend to call it. At both you will pay more for less than what you can get in Hangzhou, Ningbo, and Shanghai, and it will often be an older version of what you wanted. With this said, you will also find the wares on offer are not the most up-to-date. The trend lags behind here a good six months to a year for tech gear. Prices must be haggled. You will pay more than you would in most cities, and receive less. This is the Wenzhou way.

As for work: there are many buxiban in the downtown, Lucheng district. I've yet to meet a foreigner working at any of the buxiban with an actual, legal working visa. At best, a couple had business visas. Most had to suss out their own housing. You can get better apartments in decent districts in Shanghai than you can for a good apartment in Wenzhou. The buxiban pay more than the universities, but if you include Wenzhou cost of living, getting your own pad, and national inflation: few FTs make what I'd consider good pay for the amount of work they must do. They put in more hours than those working in universities, but end up making less per hour than people working in universities or public schools.

Public schools in Wenzhou run the gamut. Some have a good reputation. Some have a bad reputation. No matter what you end up with, you're still in Wenzhou.

Traveling to and from Wenzhou is a pain. Buses are faster, but it's 4 hours to Xiamen, 5+ to Hangzhou, 7 to Ningbo and 8 to Shanghai. Trains are worse. I refuse to use to train. Air can be tricky. The airport's little more than a slightly less congested, slightly better organized bus station. You will have to transit to other airports (Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou or Hong Kong) to get anywhere else.

Reconsider coming to Wenzhou if you can, or, set your expectations low and you should be able to cope. Heaven help you if you are working for a buxiban or the City College, though.

[samhouston]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that out!

[2 over lee]

hou bu hou? hen luohou i would say....but heard the seafood is good

good luck

[Moon Over Parma]

2 over Lee, Yueching and Dongtou have some fresher catches. Sam, I'll PM you more over the next several days and put you into contact with people there.

[kev7161]

[samhouston]

Yep. It was just easier saying it the quick way. Sorry.

[Surfdude18]

What do you mean by hou bu hou? Do you mean "Is it thick?" or "Is it at the back?"?

[samhouston]

It's samhoustonpinyin for "hao bu hao." Not sure where I got the screwy spelling from. Screwier. At least I've been spelling "Nie how" correctly all this time.

[danswayne]

[wulfrun]