| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
basiltherat
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:02 am Post subject: can anyone explain this one ? |
 |
|
hi
can anyone explain this one ?
'I watched a very good film last night.'
'I watched quite a good film last night.'
Why is 'a' before 'very' but 'a' after 'quite' ?
 I'm stumped !
basil |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jud
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 127
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Very is an adverb modifying good. Film is a noun, and as it's the first time we're speaking about the film, we need the indefinite article.
"Quite a", like "such a" is a quantifier. Quantifiers are usually set expressions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:12 am Post subject: Why ? |
|
|
What sort of explanation do you want ?
Why do we say "I am" but "he is" ? What about "he am" and "I is" ?
Just because...................... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dduck
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 422
Location: In the middle
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Scot47, why are you here?
For all the teachers out there who are too afraid to ask, Scot47 doesn't participate in the teachers forum. You'll be safe there. I promise.
Iain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:58 am Post subject: WHY ? |
|
|
A request to explain WHY something is the way it is in a language is not very useful. We can give EXAMPLES and we can give similar expressions but can we explain why ? I think not, Mr Dundonian Duck !
That was why I answered one question by asking another ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Afra
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 389
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| To quote Michael Lewis, 'Stop explaining, start exploring.' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dduck
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 422
Location: In the middle
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Perhaps, you are right. I suppose it's the difference between linguistics, which does offers answers, and teaching which says "Cos yer big Scot Daddio sez so, and that be the law roon these parts. Rightie-ho who wants insulting next..."
Iain  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Capergirl
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1232
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm going to have to agree with Scot47 on this one. (I know, I'm just as surprised as you are.  ) Some things in the English language just cannot be explained. Two days ago, a student put "I don't have had" in a sentence and I told him it should be "I haven't had". He got a puzzled look on his face and said, "But 'I don't have' means 'I haven't'...why can't say 'I don't have had' to mean 'I haven't had'?" I had to admit, it was a good question...broken English and all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shonai Ben
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 617
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Scot47 has my vote too.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
basiltherat
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
thanks jud. yours seems the only mature response to my question.
basil |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dduck
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 422
Location: In the middle
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
I meant my post just to be a bit of banter. I found it funny, perhaps Scot47 thinks so too. I wait intentively to find out. 
Iain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jud
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 127
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| My pleasure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Albulbul
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 364
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:57 pm Post subject: Funny ! |
|
|
Funny ? Funny ? The whole business of learning and teaching languages is funny. Both funny peculiar and funny ha-ha !
Actually I sometimes quite enjoy teaching. Darn ! I have let slip my great secret which I share with my colleague, the dour curmudgeon "scot47" !
And I am on holiday until 29 November ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jud wrote: |
Very is an adverb modifying good. Film is a noun, and as it's the first time we're speaking about the film, we need the indefinite article.
"Quite a", like "such a" is a quantifier. Quantifiers are usually set expressions. |
To try and get this discussion back on track can I posit that jud has stopped one stop short of being useful? Granted, jud has answered the original poster's question, but surely the aim is to be useful not just to the teacher for a long-winded explanation in class, but for the student in actually enabling them to communicate in real-life.
So, basiltherat, how is your question and jud's answer going to help "the man in the seat" as it were? That's what I want to know. If it isn't, then I'm with scot47. If it is, I'm still with him and would like a full explanation to boot |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Capergirl
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1232
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| basiltherat wrote: |
thanks jud. yours seems the only mature response to my question.
basil |
Since jud had already answered the question, it would be pointless for anyone to repeat it. Had I been asked this question in class, I would have given a similar explanation, although it would have taken a bit longer with intermediate level second language learners.
Nonetheless, I agree with Scot47 insofar as these detailed explanations are not always useful. In fact, giving them too many "whys" can cause more confusion in the long run. When citing a rule, I always remind my students that there are exceptions to every rule. It seems that every time they learn a rule of English grammar, they will shortly thereafter encounter a sentence that does not follow that rule.
English is not only difficult to learn, but also difficult to teach. The onus is on us teachers to decide whether a long, drawn-out explanation is helpful to the students in a given situation. If they are able to understand it (and we are able to adequately explain in accordance with their level of comprehension) then such an explanation is warranted. If not, it is a waste of time and an exercise in frustration for both teacher and students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
