Job Discussion Forums

rocketchild · Joined: 27 Mar 2008 Posts: 96

Thought this might be a good topic, with varied answers. Cool

I consider myself in a love/ hate relationship with life in the Gulf.
Mostly I am used to it, and find it 'easy'. But on a personal level I have found that my social life has suffered and the possibility of meeting a good person for a long term relationship is almost like living on the moon.

So the question I put to you.

When is it time to leave the GULF ?
What would bring you back?

johnslat · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject:

Dear rocketchild,
Q: When is it time for you to leave the Gulf?
A: Probably when you start asking yourself that question.

Q: What would bring you back?
A: Probably what brought you there in the first place - for many, money.

Regards,
John

rocketchild · Joined: 27 Mar 2008 Posts: 96

ya, am curious what other people say too...
what is their LINE, the line that says enough, time to move on.

Haven't you left the ME now John? I seem to recall that you had?

And money isn't great anymore compared to the EURO or the RUBBLE hahaha..

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Like John, I too have left. But, his departure was more by choice than my early retirement. Reading your messages of the last few days rocket, it sounds like it is time to move on. You have become very focused on the negatives and once that starts, things can really go downhill fast.

But also remember that the grass isn't always greener and inflation is rampant everywhere these days. If you have financial obligations or goals, be sure to factor them in.

Could it just be the end of semester blahs? As I recall, by this time of year everyone has their suitcase by the day to run to the airport ASAP after the grades are in. Everyone on the faculty is sick of each other and the students and the exams and the HEAT!! Cool

VS

rocketchild · Joined: 27 Mar 2008 Posts: 96

gee thanks VS.
considering that you often 'sugar coat' over the oft harsh realities of what it is really like to live in the Middle East I don't take what you say too seriously.

How many years now since you have left the ME and yet still post on every single ME board here??

Just wondering.

Negative about the ME, who me? lol.

Not really, just honest.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

You really needn't concern yourself about what I choose to do in my spare time. I have plenty of it since I don't need to work. Laughing

John left a couple years before me and since we both live in a country where no one is the least bit interested in discussing the things that interest us, this is a place where we can find people who do.

Is that a problem for you? I think if you had actually read my posts you would see that I have been pretty consistent in posting about the realities as I see and have seen them...YMMV... it isn't nirvana, nor is it as bad as many of the OTT whingers say. (not accusing you of being one of them BTW)

Like everything in life, working in the ME is what you make of it. If one has reached a point where the negatives way outweigh the positives, one should move on. You mentioned on another thread going into management, so are you leaving the Gulf?

VS

rocketchild · Joined: 27 Mar 2008 Posts: 96

Well, lets say, there are few management opportunities
in the GULF for an expat native speaker. Not one (opportunity) that I would consider good.

The next move is being taken and I'm taking my time in accepting. Where that is...will be determined on signing on the dotted line.

Guess you were smart and lucky. Saved your dollars, and were able to work in the ME back in the days when the salaries were actually 'high' and the dollar had some value.

A friend told me she worked in JAPAN over ten years ago and the salaries were incredibly high compared to what they are today. She said she would never go back with what they offer now.

Also, have a friend who is a ME recruiter. His only comment about his job is "it's good money".

I have seen what happens to managers who work in the ME, and it isn't pretty. Basically it's really tough because you are not only dealing with a culture that is new to education, but you are dealing with a system that isn't democratic. As a new manager this is not the place for me to start, I have too many ideas. And we all know, new ideas are not welcome here.

johnslat · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject:

Dear rocketchild,

"Haven't you left the ME now John? I seem to recall that you had?"

Yup, left in 2003, after 20 total years there.

But then, who better to try to answer the question you posed

"When is it time to leave the GULF?"

than someone who HAS left?

And, since I left and returned four times, that might qualify me to answer the other question, too.

"What would bring you back?"

(Plus, I did add "probably" to both answers, not wishing to appear the "ultimate expert.")

Regards,
John

P.S. I'd say you're generally right about new ideas' not being too popular in the Middle East, but I've known a significant number of locals who were quite open to them.
And I noticed something else, too, when I was coordinating the English Language Center at the Riyadh IPA headquarters - that old adage, "you'd be amazed at how much can be accomplished as long as you don't care who gets the credit" works, too, with respect to new ideas. When you can convince your boss that it was really HIS idea, that new idea of yours will
take wing.

rocketchild · Joined: 27 Mar 2008 Posts: 96

your like a rock star you retired and made four COMEBACKS...

i understand, I feel that now that I 'know' the ME, for better or worse, it will always be in my back pocket, and in the back of my mind when the cash gets a little tight, or the bad memories fade a bit more.

Except the dollar is so low for me, and I do have many other options, at this time, so I am going to take them. Life beckons.

With regards to new ideas. True also, there are many younger Gulf types who are Western educated and want to see serious change. And ya, the credit issue is huge here. Whenever I submitted plans for new course outlines, detailed etc....what I heard back was a massive silence.

Then within weeks I would have other coordinators come up to me in person, nothing officially in email, and ask for detailed advice on how to better re-arrange their sections, and academic advice with regards to their course structure etc....

These same people would then go to the Dean and tell him I was a lazy teacher...etc..insert slanderous remarks here.

When is it time to leave...for me, when you can no longer just laugh it off.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

When you arrive in the Middle East, they give you two buckets, one is for money and one is for s..t. When one of these gets full, you leave.

I figure when I reach my financial goals, well, then it is time to leave so I will cary the other bucket with me for now. As an ESL teacher in the US in my late forties, my employment prospects are grim and my social life will be even worse. So, I might as well just bite the bullet and sacrifice myself for money because back home nothing awaits me except a few "maybes".

But that is just me. You know what you want from life, and if you feel you are not happy where you are, then, by all means, go back home and see how it goes for you there. There will always be jobs in the ME as long as you are under 60, so if you don't make it back home, you can always come back here. Quite a few people that I know went home and then, after a while, came back. Some stayed on. It depends on how it goes for you there.

The ME is not exactly a fertile field for up and coming young managers, but for a middle aged desperado like me, there is no place like it.

That is why I do not think I want to work in the USA again. With you, it is a whole different story.

wilberforce · Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 647

When you've made your money and you're fed up with everything. Until then, hang in there.

Madman · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: Hanging on

Got to agree with Wilberforce! Keep your financial goal in mind. Do some tutoring if you can - it passes the time and gets you closer to your cash target!

sharter · Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 878 Location: All over the place

Only you can know when the time has come to leave unless you're one of the loons that lose it there.
I left Qatar when my wife unexpectedly said she was going 'on holiday' and not coming back. Yep....she'd met someone else.
I work on rotations in Libya and earn as much as I did at QP direct hire on family status......money being my main goal or gaol I suppose:)
Rotations prolong the ME stint as you get so much holiday. I work 6 and 3....that goes by very quickly.

wilberforce · Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 647

Same thing happened to me. My wife took off with a guy she met here, left me high and dry. It was bad for a while but now I've got plenty of gal pals here to keep me amused. But still looking for Miss Right. Don't know if I'll find her. Maybe I should join you in Libya.