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High stress in Canadian schools makes Middle East attractive
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:28 pm    Post subject: High stress in Canadian schools makes Middle East attractive Reply with quote

People teaching in the Middle East who think about coming back to teach in the U.S. or Canada should think twice.

I work occasionally, as a substitute teacher for one of the Montreal school boards (French board) - and while the daily compensation is reasonable (between $120-$170 per day) - there are no benefits, and the stress you have to deal with as a sub. can dampen your enthusiasm for the profession (teaching) - in some cases for life.

Some of the classroom situations you face can only be described as total chaos, and unless you are a really good classroom manager with herculean strength and authority, you will suffer. In many cases, the situation is aided and abetted by an administration which is apathetic and in no way supportive of the battles you face in the classroom, and the unwillingness of the parents to help curb the behaviour of their recalcitrant progeny.

In Canada, the attrition rate for newly qualified teachers is very high, especially in Quebec Province, which also has the dubious distinction of being a world 'leader' in suicide rates. Many suicides in Quebec are from teachers, among other professions, which are considered stressful.

While those who are full time and stick it out for years can gain benefits, and a top salary of around $68,000 per annum, with a nice pension, those starting out in the profession are often given posts nobody else wants in tough schools and school districts with little support.

It is really a matter of luck. Some schools and principals are decent, and others are a disaster. You have to jump through a lot of hoops to obtain the coveted Quebec Ministry of Education 'Permis d'Enseignement' and pass a difficult French test (even if you are an anglophone teacher of ESL!), and many just give up, when they are not able to pass the test. I managed to obtain the permit, but it took me years, including many years back in school at McGill and University of Windsor Education Departments. But to get the 'permanent' certificate, takes 900 hours of 'successful' observed teaching, and that can be a lottery and very subjective. I have known capable teachers fail the observations. The fall from grace can be brutal and depressing.

For those reasons, and others, teachers in the Middle East and other places should think hard before deciding to come back to North America. The cost of living is going up, housing and rents are way above inflation, and disposable income is becoming less and less. A tough situation.

I am presently going through the hoop jumping process to obtain a visa to teach in Saudi Arabia, and if I manage to get that, there will be little reason for me to come back to Canada to teach. The profession is high stress. Saudi Arabia, no doubt, will present a different kind of stress, but working with adults (albeit immature in some cases) should be preferable to dealing with the kids at home.

Ghost in Montreal
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Some of the classroom situations you face can only be described as total chaos, and unless you are a really good classroom manager with herculean strength and authority, you will suffer. In many cases, the situation is aided and abetted by an administration which is apathetic and in no way supportive of the battles you face in the classroom, and the unwillingness of the parents to help curb the behaviour of their recalcitrant progeny.


You are talking about teaching in the Gulf in this paragraph..... aren't you???
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is safe to say that teaching at the highschool level anywhere will be a major challenge. If you are planning to teach Saudis or any Gulf countries at the highschool level, you will most likely experience the same problems as in Canada.

I taught teenagers at a technical highschool in the UAE as well as at a junior highschool in Botswana, Africa and can say both were extremely stressful jobs. Coupled with the fact that you are adjusting to the stress of a new culture etc. 80-90% of the time was spent on classroom management and 10-20% spent on actually teaching.

Most teenagers are by their very nature a tough age bracket to manage and teach.

Moral of the story: If you want to learn some hard lessons on classroom management; teach teenagers for a few years.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teaching tertiary-level students in KSA can be easy after the horrors of secondary-level teaching ":back home". The best thing I ever did was to escape from the Scottish Education System.

As a friend said,"Before teaching in Nigeria I was in a school in Lanarkshire. Nigeria was a great improvement."


Last edited by scot47 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
The best thing I ever did was tyo escape from the Scottish Education System.

Well, I doubt it if Uncle Scott escaped from Scottish education system because of its horrors! It must be something else, Uncle Scot? Laughing

Quote:
As a friend said,"Before teaching in Nigeria I was in a school in Lanarkshire. Nigeria was a great improvement."

If Nigeria was/is a great improvment than Lanarkshire, so how do you explain that Nigerian send their children to study in Uk and not vise versa?

qhost wrote:
In Canada, the attrition rate for newly qualified teachers is very high, especially in Quebec Province, which also has the dubious distinction of being a world 'leader' in suicide rates. Many suicides in Quebec are from teachers, among other professions, which are considered stressful.

I think the most critical factors causing men (and women with less effect) to commit suicide are the following:

- Divorce and separation
- High hopelessness,
- Drugs problems
- low level of self-esteem,
- Empty spiritual life! (Yes why not?)
- Stress from losing jobs

According to WHO, Canada is not a country with a high rate of suicides (about 25 men per 100,000 population). The Eastern European countries are amongst the countries which have high % of suicide rate ( more than 48 males for 100,000 population).


Last edited by 007 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cassava



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghost, I think that you should consider teaching elsewhere in North America. High schools in rural Alberta and rural Ontario are not as awful as those in Quebec. There is an economic boom taking place in Alberta and there are many secondary school teaching posts available. Furthermore, if you hold a doctorate and some peer-reviewed publications, you should be able to get a university position in Ontario. There are also jobs available in Massachusetts and Vermont.

It's too bad that you are in Quebec. Here you have to deal with not only the lunatic, separatist fringe that wants to break up the country, but also the anti-immigrant imbeciles who mouth their racist diatribes at the slighest opportunity. I suppose you have read the recent bigoted comments of Victor-Levy Beaulieu about the African-Canadian Governor General, Mme Jean. Although Beaulieu is supposed to be a Quebec luminary, he exhibits the kind of xenophobic, doltish behaviour that helps to give Canada a bad name. The Bouchard-Taylor report shows the extent of the problem.

I suggest that you leave Quebec and go to Northern Ontario. You will find the high school students there to be generally pleasant and polite. Furthermore, the Ontario College of Teachers will grant you equivalency for your teaching certificate from Quebec.

Best wishes and good luck.
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: re Reply with quote

Quote:
I suggest that you leave Quebec and go to Northern Ontario. You will find the high school students there to be generally pleasant and polite. Furthermore, the Ontario College of Teachers will grant you equivalency for your teaching certificate from Quebec.


I am already a member of the 'Ontario College of teachers' as I also did a B.Ed. at the University of Windsor (fast track - 1 year, 2001-2002) - but I had a horrible experience as a French teacher with the Durham Catholic school board in Whitby, Ontario. I was unlucky - my principle was a very unsympathetic/unempathetic person, who showed no support for French teachers, and I was one in a long line of teachers who had passed through that system, and been left in a state of high stress and depression with the profession of 'French teacher.'

The problem is that 'language specialists' in Canada have a tough job - because foreign language classes are not considered important, and students give little respect to language teachers - it is high stress. Students see the language class as a time to 'goof off' and compared to their regular classroom teachers, give little respect.

Quebec and the rest of Canada are totally different with regard to suicide. If Quebec were a country, it would be up there among the worst in the industrialized world for suicides. The suicide rate in Quebec is much higher than the other provinces. It is a cultural thing, with the breakup of the family unit, diminished ties with the church (catholicism), and the upgrade in power and women's liberation issues in Quebec. Men in Quebec, cannot compete with women in school and the job market. The divide is sharp and ever increasing. There are many other factors, which you can read about if you do a search. The high suicide in Quebec concerns primarily men, although women do 'attempt' suicide, which I see more as a 'cry for help.'

Ghost in Montreal
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghost
I remember when you were posting on this board from Ontario and agonising about finding TEFL jobs !

Stick with EFLing is my advice !
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably good advice. It certainly worked for me. Unless you can get a job teaching in prison back home, that is. That's what I'm doing now, and it's great.
Regards,
John


Last edited by johnslat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cassava



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghost,

You should not allow one or two negative teaching experiences to colour your attitude. I fully agree with you that French teachers, especially those at the intermediate level, have all kinds of problems in Ontario. However, as I pointed out in my original post, those problems are not as acute in the northern parts of most Canadian provinces. It's all a matter of how flexible you are and where you are prepared to go. Nevertheless, if you go too far north, you will encounter a different set of difficulties.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This post ought to be in the North American branch... not the ME branch..

Perhaps the MODs could move it.

VS
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Probably good advice. It certainly worked for me. Unless you can get a job teaching in prison back home, that is. That's what I'm doing now, and it's great.
Regards,
John

Well John, if you are given the choice between teaching the prisoners of Uncle Sam and the students of the magic kingdom, which one you take? Laughing
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear 007,
Much as I enjoyed my teaching and my students at the IPA in Jeddah and Riyadh (and I really did - I'm {for once} not being ironic here), I'll have to go with the inmates.
No "wasta" problems, no subtle and not-so-subtle pressure to "up" a grade, and, best of all, here when I leave work, I get out of prison whereas, in Saudi, to be brutally honest, when I got off work, it was a little like exchanging a classroom for something that, in some respects, anyway, resembled a much larger prison.
Besides, here I don't have to create exams - the GED tests are ready and waiting. And while I still do a lot of prep (since I teach classes in reading, writing, social studies, science and (aaaarrrggghhh) math), it's less prep than I did in the Kingdom.
The inmates are all very respectful (I get called "sir" too darn much for my liking; it makes me feel way too old) and they're all really well-motivated.
It's kind of a dream job; I afraid I'm going to wake up, it's so much fun.
Regards,
John
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John
To a believer this world is merely one huge prison.

I must confess that I do not share this Calvinist/Wahabist outlook on the world.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Prison break Reply with quote

Dear scot47,
If this entire world is merely one big prison, it's strange that so few try to or are anxious to escape it.
Like you, I don't see it that way at all.
Regards,
John
P.S. And even in a real prison, well, to quote:

"Stone walls do not a prison make,
Nor iron bars a cage;
Minds innocent and quiet take
That for an hermitage;
If I have freedom in my love
And in my soul am free,
Angels alone, that soar above,
Enjoy such liberty.
- Richard Lovelace
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