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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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 Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: Uni hours/periods...( the norm?) |
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It seems from some previous posts, that teaching in a Uni for about 14 periods @ 45 min. each, is the norm??
Would i be a sucka to take a job that is 18-20 periods/hours??
And if they offer no overtime benefits...?? Am i more of a sucka??
What about the schedule of days teaching?? I have read where many of youz guyz get your classes arranged for 3-4 days teaching in a week.
Is this best done when in country after all paperwork is done, or better done in home country before anything is signed?
Please do tell, O' Wise Ones... |
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GeminiTiger
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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20 hours for a university job for a FT is considered in most cases a heavy load. I have worked in the Universities for 3 years. I have worked 10 hours to 16 hours, the contracts have always been for 16 hours.
Typically a 16 hour University contract pays no less than 4000 per month with electric paid and full airfare. I would suggest you get at least that. If you are working (contracted) for 20 hours, you should get no less then 6000 with the same perks. Experienced teachers make more. |
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Moon Over Parma
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 819
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Uni hours/periods...( the norm?) |
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| drjtrekker wrote: |
| It seems from some previous posts, that teaching in a Uni for about 14 periods @ 45 min. each, is the norm?? |
This is generally true. 1 "class hour" is usually 45 minutes in universities and colleges.
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| Would i be a sucka to take a job that is 18-20 periods/hours?? |
It depends on the pay offered.
18-20 class horus per week = minimum 7000 RMB a month. Minimum.
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| And if they offer no overtime benefits...?? Am i more of a sucka?? |
Yes. "More of a sucka," if you receive no overtime benefits and your pay for 18-20 class hours is below 7000 RMB. You have to include the possibility of English corners, office hours, at-home lesson planning, grading and exam development. If you're new to the game but give a dam about the quality of your work you might end up putting in 30 hours a week once your outside work is factored in. By your second semester you can boil it down to 22-24 hours a week of actual work (prep time and office time included).
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get your classes arranged for 3-4 days teaching in a week.
Is this best done when in country after all paperwork is done, or better done in home country before anything is signed? |
Not everyone has the luxury of negotiating 3 workdays a week. It takes time, trust and a reputation (or really solid qualifications when applying to a new school and asking for a 3 day work week). People I know with three day work weeks earned their keep and were able to negotiate this with the school. Four day work weeks are pretty common, usually with Wednesday or Thursday as a third day off. It is usually determined by the university after they schedule classes for the semester. |
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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your responses.
$$6-7000...in the non-coastal big city life as well???
Isnt the norm for a bit tad lower, especially considering cost of living is lower?
I have also read on this blog where these "newbies" are being taken as sucka's and schools take the lowest accepting FT. Thats why me ask.
What about being paid for the summer?
Another topic discussed here a bit. I have not noticed in job descriptions that a check keeps coming, during the summer break, when one is finished with their year long contract. How does that work into the equation?
Sank u bery much. |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: Um |
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You take what you can get! It is as simple as that. A good place will want good staff. These types of places have a low turnover so you have to get lucky. When you are on the ground here and you have make friends among the Chinese then doors can open for the better jobs.
The better jobs are sometimes not all about money. My new upcoming job puts me with top students that want to learn and the classrooms are fully equipped with everything I need. The grounds are beautiful. Current position I get a blackboard together with low motivated students. Wages are not a lot different. |
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Moon Over Parma
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 819
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| drjtrekker wrote: |
Thank you for your responses.
$$6-7000...in the non-coastal big city life as well??? |
I found a position like this. Big city. It's landlocked. It helps to be in the country and have experience. I have experience outside of China and after a semester: within China. If I elect not to work overtime, my salary would shrink a little bit. However, there are universities out there that will pay 100-150 RMB an hour for everything over 14-16 hours. Get it in the contract. So, If you're making 5000 RMB a month for 14-16 hours, and you agree to take on 22 hours, that's 600-900RMB extra a week. By the end of a month you'd take home 7400-8600 RMB a month, with utilities paid on the free apartment, airfare reimbursement, travel allowance (2000 RMB and up for many schools) and two month's base salary (5000 RMB) for the semester break (an additional 5000 RMB upon contract renewal for the summer break of 2009 if we agree to pursue a second year together). Like you, I was a skeptic that job offers like this were very uncommon and you had to know somebody to get them. Well, since coming to China, my preconceived notions were confirmed, but broadened. While I have no doubts the really good work comes through who you know and that requires being in the country, if you do not have friends in high places but have big eyes, open ears and aren't afraid to apply to every university under the sun and stand your ground on what you want based on your experience: it is not impossible to suss out a good job. It simply takes time, patience, hard work researching and papering schools, and being in China at the right time (which is right before the end of the Winter/Spring semester).
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| Isnt the norm for a bit tad lower, especially considering cost of living is lower? |
The "cost of living" is only relative. The reality is that inflation continues to rise here. The restaurants around my campus have tripled prices in the span of a year. A plate of Kung Pao chicken went from 4RMB to 12 in a semester (and we still have three weeks left). DVDs in some cities went from 5RMB to 8RMB. It adds up. Then there's the rising cost of oil, and this causes prices to rise for transit. Want a good vacation? Save your dough. If you allow yourself to be used for 3-4000RMB a month for 16-20 hours a week then you are going to limit your options. As prices go up, that 4000RMB in 2008 is more like 2800 RMB in 2005. If you are not living in China; if you have never lived here then you may balk at such complaints, but once you've been living on the 4000RMB a month your outlook will change. To have a reasonable, comfortable life without sacrificing a nice, western meal a week as a treat, a night out on the town once or twice a month to let off steam and catch up with fellow expats/exiles, a taxi now and then to get your frozen foodstuffs you purchased at a supermarket home before they melt, and some decent food and entertainment at home starts to add up. Then there's the want to save a little here and there, etc. Good luck attempting that on 3-4K in most Chinese cities without sacrificing your sanity.
Here's something to read that goes into quality of life in China rather well:
http://www.thehumanaught.com/blog/2008/06/04/quality-of-life-vs-standard-of-living/
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What about being paid for the summer?
Another topic discussed here a bit. I have not noticed in job descriptions that a check keeps coming, during the summer break, when one is finished with their year long contract. How does that work into the equation? |
Generally, universities offer renumeration of one month's pay for the semester break between contracted semesters. That is to say, if you come for the start of the school year in the fall, a decent offer will give you a full month's pay for your winter break, as well as a small "travel allowance." Some universities will also pay half of your airfare reimbursement at the end of each semester (splitting it into two payments). If you came mid-year and started during the winter/spring semester then a reputable school would pay a months' salary for your summer break. So, let's say you start with the school year, a reputable school will pay full salary during the winter break. If you agree to re-up with the university at the end of the contract in the summer of 2009, then a reputable school will pay you for the summer break as well as the next winter break (same as before), since you are still in service to the school. |
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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, great info.
But, "take what you can get", and "hold out for something good" ( my loose paraphrase), awww.
Well, another question.
AIRFARE???!!!@@
They want to offer me 4000...from Los angeles....that may cover half! Ha.
So my question, when re-negotiating, what is the "normal" way of doing things, i.e. send back the contract with my suggestions, re-writing contract, etc?? |
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mcl sonya
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Qingdao
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Everything is really informal and relaxed compared to America and it really bothers me sometimes, but it's just how it is here. I was emailed a copy of my contract, but they were like in the process of rewriting it. when they finally gave it to us to sign a month later it was slightly different, most notably the overtime wage went from 100 rmb/hr to 80 rmb/hr, and that our summer pay went from our normal wage to the Chinese teacher's summer wage (3/4 ours).. but it's still being paid for two months of not doing anything. I thought it was pretty fishy that we didn't sign beforehand, but someone pointed out if they were going through the trouble of getting an invitation letter and a Z visa for you they're probably pretty legit and it turned out to be ok.. the school is just really careless (sometimes in my favor..). I seriously am not sure why they bother hiring foreign teachers, because they seem to throw money at us for just being alive. nothing we do is taken seriously - there's more this, oh, how cute, the foreign teachers are talking, attitude. it's a college instead of a uni; some people seem to have this more careless, oh we're just a college so obviously we're not going to be good, attitude. it bothers me. at the same time, though, besides the carelessness feeling, the admin treats me pretty well, and the English majors are motivated and smart and I feel like I really like my students.
I work 20 hours a week plus two English corners a month.. I actually kind of like English corner. I think most teachers don't, but the kids ask me cool questions, teach me Chinese slang, and are, as they once said, my appreciation society. I make at least 5000 rmb a month (with overtime pay), they provide a roomy teacher dorm in the city center where an apartment this size normally costs about 4000 rmb. they pay all my bills. I paid for the visa and they only cover a one way ticket (less than 4000 rmb from LA). I get paid vacations and a traveling stipend.
After discussing their employment options with my students, I found out that graduates only make 800 kuai a month, with uni graduates making 1000. eight hours a day, six days a week. I have students who work for less than 5 kuai an hour.. One expensive bar hired a student to work from 6 to 2 every night for 800 kuai a month.. while knowing that he was a student.. it was outrageous. In the face of so much exploitation around me I really feel no urge to complain about my wage. I know it's considered to be pretty low in the FT range, but I'm living comfortably on it in Qingdao and have a little bit of traveling money saved. Tutoring gigs and other things net in a lot more cash; some people make as much as I do each month just tutoring rich Korean kids. |
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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks again for the replies.
My "contract" is for one year, but payment is for 10 months.
So, I suppose no dinero for the summer??
And OVERTIME, there is no overtime pay.
Problem??
Maybe I will never have to work overtime, eh??
hmmm.... |
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Moon Over Parma
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 819
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| drjtrekker wrote: |
Thanks again for the replies.
My "contract" is for one year, but payment is for 10 months.
So, I suppose no dinero for the summer?? |
Sounds perfectly normal. Clearly you didn't read one of my previous posts thoroughly. Most schools will not give you twelve months of salary. Very few do. The ones that do usually do so once a contract is renegotiated at the end of a semester, usually 30-90 days before the end of the semester. A vast majority of schools pay for one of the semester breaks with a full months' salary. If the school you're dealing with won't, then find a new employer. It's as simple as that. The same advice applies to any school only willing to pay 4000RMB for your airfare. That's the bottom line: if you accept it then you must deal with it. You can walk away at any time before a visa has been issued for you. After that, it's a rougher road for you to walk, and it's ambed you made and should lie in.
I want to remind you that there is rarely a one year contract from universities, certainly not in a calendar year. It is usually for a "school year," and that's 10 months. Your residence permit will most likely reflect this. The contract a school sends you should make this clear. If it does not then that's odd as most do. Given how you ignored or forgot my previous comment about how semester break reimbursement works, is it possible you overlooked such details in a sample contract sent to you? I suspect you are mistaking an academic year for a calendar year. Every FT I know ends up negotiating a summer break stipend (usually a full months' salary, sometimes more, with the "travel allowance") after they renew contracts with their schools. Some do it in the winter (when their contract expires). A few are signing on for an additional year, some for an additional semester. Their initial contract with their schools only provided a full month's salary for one academic break. So, you renegotiate it if you stay on with another school. This is the norm. It is uncertain if you grasp this.
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And OVERTIME, there is no overtime pay.
Problem?? |
Most likely. Some schools have a standard SAFEA contract that you sign for the base agreement that they will give you what the law tells them to (one always hopes). There is usually a second section of the contract with specific details about your hours, salary, penalties, housing, allowances, bonuses, etc. that are not generic SAFEA rules but specific to the agreement you make with the employer. It usually explains this in easy to read legal terms. It is also the part of the contract you can usually negotiate. If you cannot, then the school does not care to work with you and they view you as a tool. Like a hammer or screwdriver you are little more than a machine and being unwilling to negotiate certain terms usually bodes poorly for your future with the institution. There are schools out there that will negotiate the terms. Good luck finding one. It's not impossible, but be aware that nobody is forcing you to sign any contract you have doubts about, and in the end the buck has to stop somewhere and it stops with the prospective teacher electing to sign a contract or to walk away, in search of a better offer. Do not be afraid to ask prospective employers the questions you are asking us here. If they cannot or will not answer your questions then take that as a warning sign and look at other offers.
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Maybe I will never have to work overtime, eh??
hmmm.... |
If the contract is too vague and the school isn't clarifying points then pass on it and find another potential employer. A lot of your questions can and should be answered by your potential employer. If they cannot or will not speak to you clearly then take it as a sign to move on and find another prospect. |
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Moon Over Parma
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 819
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| mcl sonya wrote: |
After discussing their employment options with my students, I found out that graduates only make 800 kuai a month, with uni graduates making 1000. eight hours a day, six days a week. |
Looking at some offers from universities in Qingdao offering experienced, FT bachelors degree holders the starting salary of 3,200RMB a month, it looks like the locals are doing well with 1000 a month fresh out of university.  |
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mcl sonya
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 179
Location: Qingdao
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| can't tell if you're being sarcastic. if you are - yeah the uni jobs are shite. prestigious, and few hours, but I don't know how their FTs live. they must get a lot of tutoring gigs from Chinese parents dazzled by the words I teach at haida or qingda, though the qualifications required to teach there are pretty much the same as teaching at my school (one of my co-FTs is going to qingda next semester). |
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