Job Discussion Forums

[theincredibleegg]

Why do you always blame other teachers? Couldn't it possibly be because of supply/demand?

[vikuk]

a simple equation works this problem out -

Supply + demand /(devided by) poor China FT wages = other teachers not negotiating good wages and accepting poor.

If we were bags of potatoes sitting on a supermarket shelf then we'd have to accept our price sticker - but as FT's we do have the possibility to fight for a bit more or say no.

[kungfucowboy83]

atleast for my part i don't consider it complaining but warning when i post that people shouldn't take such low wages. as i am quite happy with my salary but don't want others to get screwed over

[vikuk]

[Sinko]

[vikuk]

Dearest Mr Sinko - you write -

[Anda]

Well I've taught in six countries now and find that each country has its good and bad points. I spent eight and a half years in South Korea constantly on good wages.


I think China offers a pretty good lifestyle overall but not a great deal of opportunity for saving. I'm not in a rush to leave anytime soon. I came here with my eyes open in regards to salaries and most should have done their homework before coming. It is somewhat stupid to blame everyone else for the wages and conditions here if one has been stupid enough to come here without doing one's homework in the first place.

Korea is only a short flight away so why make so much noise here when if the dollars are so important then one should go and get a job in Korea.

This demanding bigger wages thing has its limits. My first job out of Uni paid 7,000 RMB a week before taxes in PNG plus holidays, accommodation, food etc. Now I get 1,125 RMB a week plus the normal stuff at my school. I'd rather be here than PNG. A few earn up to 10,000 RMB a week here in China doing company classes. Go for what you can get and still have a life.

If others can get the big money here still then why can't those who complain all the time. I don't want to work in Shanghai so I'm where I am.

[kungfucowboy83]

[vikuk]

I'd just like to get back on the supply and demand theory - and argue why this factor seems rather simplistic reasoning when discussing the problem of low wages.

Supply and demand theory is usually applied to commerce, when a balance between supply and demand influences a specific products pricing.
If this theory is applied to the human product of the labor market - then the supply and demand balance between labor available and wages given has traditionally been a factor talked about during times of high unemployment - where a large out-of-work group of workers are ready to take the lowest offers out of a sense of economic desperation.

But at Dave's we see rather the reverse - a constant stream of advertisements offering EFL positions - but hardly a post which goes along the lines of - "I'm desperate to become a China FT, can anyone find me a job - I'll take anything."

However what we do see is advertisement after advertisement offering the lowest of wages - while we constantly hear the 1001 excuses why the wages should be so low for FT's -

- 3000RMB is a good wage in China

- China is cheap you can eat 5RMB noodles

- China is a developing country

- this is a poor school, the parents who have kids here may drive big cars and pay high tuition fees - but we can't afford to pay you more

- this really is a poor school that can only charge a small fee - we can't pay you any more (while conveniently forgetting to tell you that they can still make good money if they can cram a 100 kids into your classroom)

- Chinese teachers have small wages, so must you

But on that supply and demand thing - finding a good supply of higher paying jobs is difficult on the internet, but those of us who are out here know that they do exist - just as we know that the factors would be employers give for holding wages down are often bunkum in the real world of EFL China. So I suppose it's up to us to inform prospective candidates to look harder, those better paid jobs do exist, always bargain for more and say no to those offers that really don't make the grade.

[kungfucowboy83]

vikuk i have to say the only way people are going to take these 3000rmb jobs is if they do no research and don't take searching for a job seriouslly. This forum is filled with posts about how you have to be working less than 10 hours a week or be an idiot to take 3000rmb anywhere in china as well as lots of other advice. it's not exactly hard to find this forum durring a web search.

also if you find an area you want to go and search for schools and contact them directly you will get to see a wide range of offers. So there is another way to not get ripped off (at least not as much).

If some one takes a job but does no research beforehand about expected wages, the environment they will live in and such then they will likely get hosed if they are looking in China, the USA or any other country. I have sympathy for people who were lied to about salary and conditions but so much for people who jump totally unprepared into a completely unknown situation.

so we just need to keep telling people "don't take that joke of an offer" and it will limit schools that offer low wages to the people who don't do their research.

[TangWolun]

I found this one tonight on Seek.com here in Aus - any takers?

Various Teaching Roles Available in Shanghai, China
Challenging Curriculum
Supportive Environment
Attractive Package
This school offers a challenging broad curriculum, based on the National Curriculum of England that focuses on the development of the whole person, aiming to develop each child's academic, physical, social and spiritual potential to the full, and to equip every pupil with the essential skills for lifelong learning. In striving for excellence in education they aim to provide a caring, stimulating and supportive environment, where all pupils have the opportunity to take part and achieve.


Roles:

-Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator � Aug 08

-Secondary English & Media Teacher � Aug 08

-Primary and Secondary Music Teacher � Aug 08

-Secondary Scientist (to teach up to IGCSE plus some Maths teaching) � Jan 09



Package:

-School Housing

-Free education for employee�s children

-Flights are provided at the beginning and end of the two-year contract for the employee & dependents

-The salary range is RMB324,990 � RMB424,380 per annum



MOD EDIT
Email: Please click the 'Apply Now' button below.

TangWolun. !!

[TangWolun]

and this one!.............any takers??

Secondary Teachers Required in Beijing
International School
Housing Allowance
Annual Flights
This is a secondary university preparatory international school in Beijing approved by the Beijing Municipal Education Commission to enrol local and overseas students aged 11 to 19. They are authorized by the International Baccalaureate Organization (IBO) to offer students aged 16 to 19 the Diploma Programme (IBDP), which is recognized as a qualification for university entrance. The school is implementing IB Middle Years Programme (IBMYP) in the junior section. There are two campuses within easy reach of central Beijing and the major Ring Road network. 440 students and 100 staff from over 40 countries are now on both campuses. 85% students are international students.

Salary and Package:

Salary (net) c RMB 20,000 pcm [c $2,500]
Bonus of one month's salary after one year
Housing allowance (negotiable but sufficient for comfortable expatriate style apartment 2/3 beds)
Medical package for the employee
Annual economy flight (capped at $1200)
Baggage allowance
Education allowance - free tuition - for up to 2 children
MOD EDIT
Email: Please click the 'Apply Now' button below.


Any takers?
TangWolun.

[vikuk]

At least 95% of the FT's in China aren't qualified to take those jobs
These aren't exactly the the run of the mill EFL jobs that most people here depend upon.
Its been noted before that qualified teachers going for subject specified international type positions should earn far more than the humble FT - but even the wage scale on these jobs seems to be falling. I think 20K/month is deemed quite low for this type of teaching.

[Orrin]

You may be right about the falling wages. I know of one British university who has had a campus here in Zhuhai, that in Feb. 2007 was offering 12/K per month with a 1500 housing allowance. The very same university is now offering 8K per month with the same housing allowance, and increased working hours. That's a 33% drop in less than 2 years. To what do you attribute this? I have a few ideas.

[melilly]

NONE of us have the power to change this stuff...

All of the points here are simply a fact of life, the facts of OUR lives, as EFL teachers in China.

Experience and common sense will take us in the right direction, whatever direction that may be.

If we stay in China, we are responsible only for the choices we make, not for the choices others make.

The blame game is pointless.

There is NO ONE to blame for our OWN lives.

The Kung Fu Panda has spoken.