Job Discussion Forums

[Song&Dance]

How many EFL teaching jobs are there in China?

How many of those are authorized and permitted by SAFEA and how many are illegal?

How man FEs are currently teaching in China?

How many additional FEs does China require?

How many are teaching in China legally and how many are illegal?

No single Chinese governmental agency, department or bureau can answer any or all of these questions except SAFEA and their ability is limited.

If you have any ability to give an informed answer to any of the above questions, I encourage you to do so.

I have some verified and some unverified information but from reliable sources, that I will share over numerous posts.l

[Song&Dance]

First some verified good news -

Last October 2007, well after the school year had commenced, our team of four researchers contacted every web advertiser we could find who was recruiting for teachers for China. We wanted to know if any positions were still open as late as October 28, 2007.

We found 5,488 positions unfilled. That means a shortage of 5,488 foreign experts or 5,488 current job openings.

Let me give a couple of examples:
Pingdenshen University needed 18 FEs. They were only able to recruit 2.
Xinyang Normal University wanted 8 FEs but was only able to recruit 3.

The openings were across the board from kindergarten through university and across China.

We were unable to locate any Chinese government agency, department or bureau that kept tract of this.

[Song&Dance]

How many legal EFL teaching positions are there in China?

National Day reception held for foreign experts in China

In the past two years, the annual number of foreign experts working on the Chinese mainland reached 240,000.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200409/27/eng20040927_158477.html
10:59, September 28, 2004

Teaching English still top job for foreign experts

Bureau figures indicate that about 260,000 foreigners are currently working in China, but these are only those in stable jobs.

They usually work as consultants or managers of big construction projects, technical staff, senior managers in international or joint-venture companies, or language teachers and polishers.

"English teaching positions are still very popular, especially for those without a strong technical background," Yang said, adding that the number of foreign English teachers stood at 60,000, excluding those in part-time jobs.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-11/07/content_491858.htm
2005-11-07 05:32


Foreign experts win Friendship Award in China

According to SAFEA, in 2006, the number of foreign experts rocketed to 400,000 on the mainland.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-07/17/content_6386622.htm
2007-07-17 08:58:11

According to the above information, which may or may not be accurate, there were 240,000 known legal foreign experts working in China; in 2007 the number jumped to 260,000 with 60,000 working as teachers; and in 2008 the figure was 400,000.

None of the above could be confirmed directly with SAFEA.

A 2003 article claimed that China annually recruits 100,000 EFL teachers but it is not stated if these are strictly legal or legal and illegal positions combined. We have private email confirmation that the private research number is for legal positions only.

�In 1862, under the Great Qing Dynasty, the first English Language School was officially opened by the Chinese Government to train ten men for the newly created diplomatic corps. Now, China annually recruits 100,000 'Foreign Experts' (FE) to teach English as a Second Language (ESL) with an accompanying 10 billion Yuan price tag.� (2003) Progress in Education Vol. 12 Ch. 3, Nova Publications https://www.novapublishers.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1333

As an aside note, Tom MacArthur, Editor of English Today, Cambridge University Press, published an article in 2004 stating that there were over 1,000,000 Chinese teachers of English in China. I mention this to give scale perspective to the claim of 100,000 FEs.

There being no official government publication stating the number of legal EFL teaching positions; a news report of 60,000 positions in 2007; and a private research number in 2003, I leave it to you to judge which you believe to be more reliable.

The lack of reliable government reporting is not unusual for China.

[Song&Dance]

How many foreigners are teaching EFL on an F or L visa? (Note: Working on an F or L visa is illegal.)

In 2004 Wu zhaoqi, Editor, Abroadchina.org and Helen of ChinaTEFL both confirmed approximately 150,000 legal FEs and 100,000 foreigners teaching illegally on F or L visas.

Both of the above operate extensive teacher recruiting web sites and are in positions of knowledge. Wu zhaoqi also criticised SAFEA for not keeping accurate records of legal FTs.

[Song&Dance]

It is also unlawful to work on a foreign student visa. The practice of utilizing foreign exchange students to teach EFL in China was first reported in 2006.
Frontiers in Higher Education, Chapter 11, Nova Science Publications (2006)

I am personally aware of two Beijing universities, three Shanghai universities and one Jiangxi university that regularly employ exchange students illegally to teach EFL at their main university and their affiliated middle schools.

[Anda]

"150,000 legal FEs and 100,000 foreigners teaching illegally on F or L visas." with say an extra 100,000 now seeing that it was a figure from four years back.


I would tend to go with this as the recent tightening of visas for foreigners working in China makes sense if the government is expecting a slowdown of the economy here. If say many institutes went bloke quickly then the government might end up having to pay the costs of sending home stranded illegal English teachers along with a number of legal English teachers.

Something is in the wind as the tightening up in the business sector has to have a reason behind it. Like many have been running business enterprisers employing substantial numbers of locals for a number of years and have still been closed. Yes the operations were not legal but they were tolerated knowingly for years.

The only figures I've seen here on the board before have been for numbers like forty to fifty thousand. There is only one decent bookshop in Shanghai for our lot that sell a good selection of imported English teaching books but in South Korea for instance they're all over the place.

[vikuk]

[Anda]

From Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/28/china-tourist-visa-ent-law-cx_ml_0528chinavisa.html

It's not that the regulations have changed so much as enforcement of the ones already on the books. By law, travelers to China on business have long been required to obtain "business" visas. In practice, though, all you needed to travel in and out of China for business was a tourist visa. Called an "L" visa, it ran about $130 and took just several days to process. With just a tourist visa, entrepreneurs could live and run businesses in China for decades. All they had to do was shuttle back and forth to Hong Kong (or their native country) every six months or so and get a new one.

Getting "legal" in China will cost you. In order for foreigners to run a business (or just a branch of one) on the mainland, they must obtain a working visa, called a "Z" visa. Associated costs: $8,000 to $10,000 in legal fees, $2,000 to $5,000 in filing fees, plus a minimum "capital requirement"--a sum determined by the local government to be deposited in a Chinese bank at the time of registration to ensure that the business will survive.

Sadly, says Harris, following protocol will put you at the back of a long line--and you still might get rejected ultimately. A better plan: Develop relationships with local government officials ahead of time; that way, when you are ready to file for your "Z" visa, you'll have an advocate among the Beijing bureaucrats. Even in the best-case scenario, though, the whole process could still take two to three months.

If you don't operate a business or branch in China but still need to transact business there, it's "nearly impossible" to do so on a tourist visa as in the past, says Harris. Foreigners caught with invalid visas are fined 500 to 5,000 renminbi per day (roughly $72 to $720) and suffer having a passport stamp that reads "has to leave China within 10 days." Once stamped, Harris says, you can pretty much forget about bagging another visa.

[Anda]

Update on China visa situation - Hong Kong, China Travel BlogF visas issued within China cannot be extended. In such cases, you must go to .... a Z work visa. Both F and L visas have been reduced to 30 days. BUT, you ...
www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/happysheep/shangri-la-la/1212575580.html - 94k -

..................................................................................................
4. F and L visas good for only 30 days

If you want to stay in China for over 30 days, you need to apply for a Z work visa. Both F and L visas have been reduced to 30 days.

5. No switching visa types between L and F

You can no longer change your visa type from L to F or vice versa.

6. New documentation required to apply for a tourist (L) visa:

Technically, you must provide:

A copy of your hotel bookings valid from the day you arrive to the day you leave or a letter if invitation from a friend or family member who you plan to stay with for the duration of your stay in China with all their contact details including their passport or ID number (if you can provide photocopies of their ID documents this could be helpful).
A copy of a return flight ticket booking (you can book and cancel your flight for a limited fee). A quick and easy way to go is Ctrip.com, which charges 200 RMB to cancel online flight bookings. If you want to book a flight from Hong Kong with Ctrip, you need to phone their 24 hour, English-speaking call service at: 86-021-34064880 Ext. 6.


........................................................................................

[Anda]

So all the talk about places not being able to find people to teach English now the people in the places saying this have strong reasons why they can't find them.


Seeing that the thirty day thing on F and L visas has already started it means that something like 45% of the foreign English teachers that worked illegally are gone or soon will be. The wages here will not support the costs of working illegally on an F or L visa any more. This doesn�t mean that wages will go up a lot as wages are tired into tuition charges and what the public can afford.

Want a reason:

http://europebusines.blogspot.com/2008/08/massive-us-naval-armada-heads-for-iran.html

My part time boss is hiring people from Africa for lower wages and cutting my hours. So is life.

[vikuk]

[Anda]

One is but I don't know about the new one starting in September but probally. The city where I work over half the foreign teachers are non Western. It's a real mix here I think because of wages and the fact that the city isn't of much interest to most.

[vikuk]

[Anda]

The city I am now working in has about 30 foreign teachers of which half are non Western. I don't know how the paperwork gets done but where William Wallace is currently working most are non Western. I get along with all nationalities and there is nothing that can be done to change what is happening but do a good job. They work for agreed wages and will work part time for less than the standard 100 paid away from the really big cities.


Back home in Australia many non Australians are prepared to work for less for under the table money. So It's happening back home and there is the Mexican thing in the US plus. The new world order is happening where in the end we will all be on low pay and low conditions as that is what those in power want.


I don�t see myself as special and I like to see everyone get fair pay and conditions provided they do a good job. I just consider that I�ve been lucky in life getting more pay for a job than some else of similar ability.


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[vikuk]

Dearest Anda in another thread you wrote -