Job Discussion Forums

[mikefriend]

I recently had lunch with an ft at a different school. We were having the discussion about his school. He likes working there but told me he doesn�t get along with his dos because of a personality clash. He thinks that there is no way to work out the differences.

Said his students seem to like him and his ability to teach the material is on par.

He expressed to me that while he has a contract through June he thinks the school will ask him to leave when the current semester is up � mid January I guess.

So the discussion centered around what can he do if the school tells him to leave mid contract even if his contract is for 6 more months? Should he expect that the school will just tell him he is fired even though he has not broken any contract requirements and accept that and pack his things and leave? Should the school offer to pay his salary, return ticket home AND pay the fine for breaking the contract?

Can the school � the sponsor of the visa � just kick the teacher out onto the street with no other plan and is that legal (for China)? Is part of the visa requirements for an rp that the teacher has a place to live and a job?

The ft expressed to me that he thinks it is a real situation and is most likely to occur at the end of the semester and wanted an idea of my thoughts.

I have never been in this situation and he is not a member of Daves so I told him I would post this question and give him feedback.

So what I am asking for is what opinions you may have on this issue on what was mentioned and any other thoughts you can share. If you have been in this situation please post the outcome.

My advice to him was to have a talk with the school but he flat out told me that he doesn�t trust them now whatever they tell him but he wants to plan ahead � ie buy his own ticket home soon, walk out earlier, or secure a new job and place to live.

[jamesmollo]

Does this friend plan on staying in China?
I am in a similar situation now. I had a 'personality clash' with the f.a.o and management. So, I resigned 5 months into my contract. I received what was left of my pay - minus the r.p.f fee and remaining ticket money that they gave me in advance. Plus the release letter.
I gave 30 days notice but they cancelled all my classes after that fact. So I'm currently looking for work but still living in their apartment until the end of ths month.
They can't REALLY fire someone over a personality clash, as you put it. But, they would make something up. In my case, I happened to see a document 'apparantley written by me and signed by me' that my reason for leaving was constant complaints from co-workers, parents and students. In one case a student said they wished they had never had class with me! ridiculous.
So I demanded the document be destroyed before signing any further paperwork.
Why does he expect they will let him go? has he received a warning written or otherwise?
If he's really sure that this will happen, better be prepared. Make it their fault in other words, build a case against them.
But, to be honest and that is if he wants to remain in china, finish things on a good note, as I did.
Let them have face (I know it's silly) but just leave on good terms, but don't, I repeat don't let them slander you and make it your fault either.
Remember, the face thing works both ways.
Good luck to your friend anyway. Some more info would be helpful.

[cj750nomad]

[eddy-cool]

I doubt that employer can find a suitable replacement just as the employer decides according to his whims. A new candidate would present just the same potential of failure on the job as the current one; why then would they want to push him over board without a valid reason?

I am also a little tired of reading 'popular with students'; that is very often the only defence in the FT's arsenal, and as argument totally pointless. The more 'popular' you are the less professional (in some cases).

Maybe that is the basic reason for the 'personality clash'?

[brsmith15]

Nomad has god points. Firstly, they can do anything they want: break contracts, cancel classes, and lie with impunity. If they really are in breach you can try a lawsuit, but I wouldn't recommend it unless he personnaly knows a GOOD attorney.

Document everything. He might even try and get a letter of two from the students that do appreciate him and possibly something from other FT's that are in the same situation.

But......do try and leave them face. Burned bridges may give a form of satisfaction, but once burned they stay burned and the Chinese hold grudges - - forever.

Worst case: He finds a new job, but has to do a HK run or return to his native country, both for a new Z entry visa.

Best case: They release him profesionally with a letter so he's free to look for a new job and stay here.

Tell him good luck. I've been in just the same situation myself with Delter/Telfort about five years ago. I had to go back to the US and it cost me $4,000!

[ralph wiggim]

I am the teacher as mentioned in the post above. Just got on Daves.

So I was told by another teacher that the school does not like me and wants to replace me.

Today, the school asked me to return the fec book that I was given. The reason is that they want to "update" it. I told them other teachers have theirs and I will give it back at the end of the contract in July. They didn't like that response.

In general I like working here but the administration is not easy to get along with and I basically avoid them. I teach my classes and do my work and coach the students when needed.

Losing the job, well their are plenty of jobs available. But, my concern is they will come to me and tell me to leave immediately. Being homeless in China, well I have issues with that.

So I will accept their termination of the contract but insist they provide me with a ticket home.

I can't say I have any bargaining chips - except I have to turn in grades for several classes that have finished. If they want to fire me... Life Happens. But should I expect them to provide me with a ticket home and up to date salary?

Those are important because we know that buying a ticket internationally is expensive and even more so at the last minute.

I have read though many postings and know that teachers have no real rights in China.

So should I expect to be left out in the cold and ripped off like so many other posters?

[arioch36]

Not really. I would say if they want you to leave early, you have the upper hand. But you should find out where the provincial Foreign Affairs office is located, all major cities have one. I have found them to be pretty decent. Ditto the PSB

If the passport with a residnce permit (RP) and the FEC are in your hands, aint nothinmg they can do to you, it's a bluff. They can not tell u to leave before the date on your contract/RP which are hopefull the same. They might try to bluff you.
You decide, do you want to stay and ignore them, or leave?

Then tell them, you want me to leave, u must pay me X Y and Z. If you have the number of the provincial FAO/SAFEA office, a huge ace up your sleeve. They don't jump in to protect the school. I have never found that.

You are in school housing> They can't ask you to leave

By the way, some have said courts are to be avoided, and its true. But I am in a court case. The court has contacted the PSB and provincial/FAO/ SAFEA office, over things like the contract that has gone missing, etc. This summer, I had no problem getting my FEC and RP, though many others did.

yeah, they consider me to be "mafan" troublesome, but also have not made the slightest move against me. In fact, they have been very cooperative.

DOn't sweat such bluffs by the school

(Oh the school I am taking to court had someone come to intimidate me, saying unless I accepted their offer, I cwould have to leave CHina. That was two years ago

[North China Laowei]

Dear Ralph,

First, I want to second Arioch's advice. Monday morning find your way please to the local FEB and the PSB. Make noise. You are not without some basic rights.

Read your contract thoroughly. If they are firing you innocuously, demand the RMB 5,000 breach payment. And raise that issue with the FEB. The PSB will look at the legalities of it but if you are in any kind of a major city, the PSB might just intervene. I even saw such a thing happen in Guangzhou of all places.

Next, I am sorry to say but check the SAFEA agreements -- I believe, but I am not sure, that you have a 10-day grace period to vacate their premises...that being said, your contract probably has a clause that says something like "pending resolution of the outstanding issues" business should continue as usual. Put that under their nose.

Whatever you do, do it in writing. They hate that. It leaves a trail. And do it in Chinese, too, even if you have to do a botched up machine translation from babelfish.

Next, you should absolutely be able to find another job in China within 10-20-30 days with no problem at all. We can handle this in a PM if you want. I have some good contacts that I would be willing to share, as do others on the Board, too.

Next, you are only "required" to give them the FEC the moment you actually leave the school. You hand them the FEC, they hand you a letter of release and a recommendation, both stamped with the school's chop. You do not relinquish your passport to them under any circumstances. If they insist on it, notify the PSB after you have spoken to your consulate. Make sure you give the consulate the local PSB's number. The consulates will not get involved in teacher disputes as a rule. They will however rapidly intervene when a passport is being lifted "manu militarii" from a foreign teacher under duress.

Display NO anger with them, as much as you want. Not that you can't be angry -- you should be angry. But if you show them visible anger or even angst, they have taken your face and they will be quite content and the battle will become more difficult for you. Resist with a steel tone, and a quiet voice, and firm body language. They won't know what to do with that.

Above all, get yourself a parachute. No, they cannot chuck you out of the country. That is one of the oldest threats around here -- exercised against me, against other posters, etc., etc. These are civil matters unless you engage in something ultra vires, which I trust you will not do, and the PSB are loathe to intervene.

Any further questions, PM me. In the meantime, remain as calm as possible.

NCL

[arioch36]

NCL