Job Discussion Forums

[agarbers]

The health care provided by the uni I will be working for in Sept is very limited (just a total expense limit over the duration of my stay). Plus I have heard horror stories about medical care and sterility in Chinese clinics/hospitals.

First, what extra health care measures should be taken to ensure sufficient coverage?

Second, when seeking medical treatment, are there qualities that FTs should look for? (ie: this kind of hospital compared to that kind)

Finally, any suggestions on personal health products to bring? Anything you can't find in China? (besides deodorant, apparently)

And I'm not germaphobe (at least I don't think so) just making sure I stay healthy.

[kev7161]

First of all, deodorant is MUCH easier to find these days in China than before, so maybe pack a couple sticks of your favorite and then replenish here when you run out. Nivea has some nice spray and roll-on for men and women. Other brands are there as well, cheapest being "Fa" brand I believe.

Second: Drugs - - I was diagnosed with diabetes last year and I can find pretty much any of the medicines I need in almost any drug store (and there are numerous ones here). Also your typical OTC drugs for sniffles and colds and allergies and such are fairly easy to find as well. You may need the help of a Chinese assistant the first time but then bring your empty packages in the following visits and you're good to go. I am a huge fan of Nyquil but can't find that here, so I bring the easy-to-swallow pills back with me when I go home to USA.

Medical "insurance" - - each school will vary. Mine is kind of on the cheap-o side. They give us a thousand RMB a YEAR to cover off-campus medical problems (including medicine). When I told them about my diabetes, they seemed to indicate they would help me out as this was an ongoing thing and I'd have to have frequent hospital visits and of course constant medicine buying but that fell through. I was told by one teacher that the Chinese teachers get ongoing if they have such ailments but I guess they figured I already make too much money or something so I could help myself. In the unlikely chance I stick around next school year (2009), I'll be sure to aggressively re-negotiate my contract to cover myself better. Once that thousand is used up, then it's all out of my own pocket. We have an on-school clinic but that's a joke. A little room with kids running in and out constantly with the smallest of ailments. The "doctors" keep our records written down in notebooks - - I guess they've never heard of computers. And the drugs they give us are indecipherable and all packages are only in Chinese characters.

Hospitals - - each area will be different, but our school sends us to a hospital that has a so-called "VIP" section where foreigners go because some of the staff speak rudimentary English. But I don't like it because not only is it too far away it is also expensive. I went to have my blood tested the other day and the doctor, who does nothing, gets paid 100 rmb just to "tell" the nurses to draw my blood. Then there's the fee for the testing of course and that's okay. I'd rather give my 100 to the nurse who does all the work AND speaks English because lord knows these highly educated doctors can't be bothered with that!

Other items to think about bringing: your basic aspirin or pain relievers although you can find tylenol here; antibiotic hand wash stuff (that kind you just rub on and go), anything that you'd normally use back home, bring a month or two supply and then you can often find replacements here. Oh, antacids (Tums, Rolaids, Alka-Seltzer, Pepto-Bismal) could be a good thing to pack. Anti-diarheal (spelling?) medicines probably couldn't hurt either.

[foreignDevil]

I have a few things to say about questions the OP raised. First of all, don't even think of coming here if you don't have health insurance. I'm sorry if that sounds overly dramatic, but it is the reality. Hospitals here demand cash up front... I have yet to see a hospital here that doesn't have this policy. They are not going to send you a bill later. So, this means you need good medical coverage and cash savings.
I broke my arm last year. I have excellent international medical insurance that covers just about everything, and has multi-lingual office staff (yes, even in Chinese) to deal with inquiries from wherever i am in the world........ but it didn't matter. The hospital where I had my arm surgey and one-week stay would not even listen to me. They have no structures in place for billing international insurance companies. I had to pay 20,000 rmb up front. That was just for a broken arm.

Related to costs, the typical insurance policy a school will offer is not even going to come close to covering a serious illness or health emergency. In fact, most plans I have seen are just accident coverage. Yes, there are a lot of schools out there and I am sure someone can write in with a different experience.

Lastly, I just want to point out that China is still a third-world country, at least when it comes to health care. You cannot come here and expect the quality of service you may have been accustomed to back home. Are there some good hospitals here? Yes of course. The major cities do have some excellent facilities, with the latest equipment and fairly well trained staff. But if there is an emergency, will you be able to get to the place you want to go? And will you be able to communicate effectively? I speak reasonable Mandarin, and the surgeon who operated on me spoke reasonable English, but it was still difficult.

I want to stress that I am NOT bashing China, and I do NOT mean to sound discouraging. But health care is one of those things that people need to be really really careful about when they come here. Get the best medical coverage you can afford, and, to be honest, live close to Hong Kong or Macau. If you need to, you can go to a hospital there.

foreigndevil

[Anda]

I have paid my own medical costs for two years. If I got stuck then I've got a return ticket to OZ. During the two years I've been here I've had lots of bugs (colds & flu) that I used to go to hospital for treatment until I found a good little medical clinic. Now I eat good food and drink lots of vegetable juice that I make myself and so far no problems.

My first place of employment gave me 1,000 RMB and said go find your own insurance. Current place of employment I really don't know or care as what they provide is useless.

Many hospitals here they will keep you for as long as they can and bled you for money. If you are Chinese of foreign it makes no difference, some however are great. Some places are clean and some are as clean as rubbish dumps.


If you have diabetes then try:


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[China.Pete]

I think Foreign Devil has just about summarized the health care situation for most FTs working in China. A few of the more reputable universities are self-insured, and will pay the up-front hospital costs when necessary. In most other cases, you're more or less on your own. Check out http://www.insurancequest.com/International/health/index.html for a quote on international health insurance.

[samhouston]

[Anda]

Hello Samhouston as some of us have said they give you a limited amount and say find your own insurance. Other will reimburse you up to a certain figure for medical expenses but want dockets� for it. Getting them to pay for overseas medical coverage you can forget at 99.99% of places that employ a foreign teacher.


What some employers do is cover you up to a point at the hospital and then take it out of your pay afterwards if it is over the cover they provide. The normal thing is you go back and forth to the pay counter for each service you receive at the hospital. This means that you might do this ten of so times on one visit.

Only party members where you work have a full medical coverage. Everyone else is treated the same as us. Some places they only provide free medical at the school or university clinic. You still have to pay for the medicine however.

This is China so you either have to take it or leave it.

[samhouston]

The travel insurance I'm talking about is from Nationwide in the U.S.

[foreignDevil]

[quote="samhouston"]

[Orrin]

Judge for yourself. Believe me, my experience is not uncommon anywhere in China.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=63766

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: My experience with medical care in Zhuhai

________________________________________
In the afternoon of 31 October of last year, I was admitted to Zhongshan University #5 hospital. I had a dangerously high fever, and was in acute pain in my chest and back. Also, I was, from time to time, only semi-conscious. When I was admitted, I had with me some X-rays I had taken earlier in the day which showed a large mass of �something� in my chest. I was to have a CT scan and have some other tests done to diagnose the problem.

I paid a 4000RMB deposit ($KACHING$), and was sent to a semi-private room on the pulmonary floor where they looked me over (for about 5 minutes), drew some blood, and took my temperature. I had repeated told the doctors, through a translator from the HR department of my school, that I would need some medication for the pain before the scan because I could not lie down, on my back, motionless in the scanner. Even the slightest amount of pressure on my back, such as leaning back in a chair or lying down in a bed caused fits of extremely painful coughing. They said that they would give me some medication before they took me for the scan. I then waited there for the medication and my turn in the scanner.

About 20 minutes after my �examination� one of the doctors, who spoke pretty decent English, came to my room to tell me that an examination of my X-rays showed that I had a pretty severe case of pneumonia. The problem was, however, that they didn�t know what was causing it. They said that it could be �common� pneumonia, or it might be caused by something more sinister such as tuberculosis (highly contagious) or even cancer. She also said that they still wanted to do the CT scan (1000RMB $KACHING$) to have a closer look. At that point I was loaded into a wheelchair, and taken to the CT scan room. I had not yet been given any medication, and I was violently coughing and hacking the whole way to the radiology department.

When it was my turn on the scanner, they got me up out of the chair and tried to get me down on the scanner platform. As soon as by back touched the platform, I began uncontrollably coughing and hacking. They told me to �stop doing that� and to lie completely still, because the procedure would only take �a few seconds�. After a couple of more unsuccessful attempts, they realized that there was no way that they would be able to get a decent scan, and they wheeled me back to my room.

About 30 minutes later, a doctor and a nurse came to administer an injection of some pain medication. The doctor told me that the reason they had taken me for the scan earlier was that the radiology department was due to make a shift change, and I was to be the last patient on there shift, and that the on-duty staff were anxious to finish up and go home. About 2 hours later, the pain medication took effect, and I was able to lie still enough for the scan to be completed.

The following morning, the doctor came to tell me that the CT scan had been inconclusive, but that didn�t matter because they knew what my problem was, and that they wanted to perform a minor surgical procedure to extract some of the �mass� from my chest cavity and analyze it to determine the cause of my problem. That sounded reasonable enough to me. I asked her when they wanted to do this, and she told me that they would do it early that afternoon. I waited. About 4:30 in the afternoon, two doctors wheeled me down to the obstetrics department for an ultrasound examination. They pushed me past the crowd of about 35 or 40 pregnant women, all of whom, I suspect, had been waiting there for hours. Needles to say, I received a lot of dirty looks as they took me into the examination room ahead of everyone else. After that interesting experience (again, 500RMB $KACHING$), I was taken back to my room where I waited another 2 hours. I should mention at this point that, while all of this was going on, even during the trip to and from the ultrasound examination, I was plugged into an IV drip.

Around 7:00pm a team of 4 doctors came to perform the draining procedure. The procedure itself was relatively painless. They sat me, backwards, in a high-backed wooden chair in my room. I was given an injection of a local anesthetic, and a long-needled, very large-barreled syringe was inserted into my back, and about � liter of a very foul-smelling, amber liquid was extracted from my chest cavity.

As each syringe was filled, the doctor would disconnect the barrel of the syringe from the needle (which remained in my back), and squirt its contents into a 1 liter, empty, glass IV bottle which was sitting on the floor about 1 meter away from her. A couple of times they reinserted and repositioned the needle. The only problem was, however, that only about � the contents of each syringe found its way into the bottle. The rest wound up all over the floor around the bottle. Remember, at this time, they had no idea what this foul-smelling amber liquid might contain! When the procedure was completed (about 30 minutes), they packed up their kit, wiped off the outside of the bottle, helped me back into my bed, and told me to be careful not to step in any of the fluid on the floor. They then hurried out of the room. The puddle of unknown, foul-smelling, amber liquid remained in place on the floor until the following morning when �ayi� came in and passed a wet mop over the affected area. Incidentally, the next day, as my IV needle was being changed, about a half dozen drops of blood spilled out of me onto the floor next to my bed. They were still there when I checked my self out of the hospital six or seven days later! So much for biohazard precautions!

Later that morning the doctor returned to tell me that they had diagnosed my illness. She had with her an English medical text with the description of my disease, its causes, and its recommended treatments highlighted for me to read. Apparently, my problem was a severe case of �Emphyric Pneumonia, better known in layman�s terms as �walking pneumonia�. This is a disease which is caused by a bacterial or viral infection. Unlike �common� pneumonia, with this disease fluid collects outside the lungs within the chest cavity.

Apparently, I had contracted the disease 4 or 5 months earlier while I was in Zhongshan, but the severe symptoms didn�t manifest themselves until about 6 days before I was admitted to the hospital. The recommended treatment was a rigorous regiment of powerful antibiotics, and if that didn�t work, the insertion of a chest tube for drainage was the alternate approach.

The doctor�s initial recommendation was that I begin the antibiotic treatment and continue the daily chest draining procedure. She warned me, however, that the antibiotics were very expensive, about 800RMB per dose, and that the treatment would take about 1 week. That all sounded pretty reasonable to me, so I consented to the treatments. The antibiotic treatments ($KACHING$) began within minutes, and the ultrasound and chest draining procedures ($KACHING$ $KACHING$) continued later that afternoon.

The treatments appeared to be working quite well, because with each passing day I was feeling better and better. My temperature had returned to normal, and the greatest majority of the original pain was gone. The only problem I was having was being caused by the repeated deep punctures in my back from the drainage needle. Although the procedure itself was painless, once the local anesthetic wore off, I would experience some acute, deep pain in my back and chest for several hours each day. This, however, was neither very alarming nor unexpected.

On the fourth or fifth day of my treatment, a doctor (the one with the decent English who had showed me the medical book) came to tell me that the antibiotic and drainage treatments were not working and that they wanted to perform major surgery on me to complete the job. When I asked her what the surgery involved, she told me that they would open me up, separate (break) 4 of my ribs close to the spine, and manually clean out my chest cavity. My first reaction was WTF!!! I was feeling 1000% better than when I checked in. All of the pain, except that caused by the drainage procedure was gone, and my temperature had stabilized back to normal. Why take such a drastic course of treatment for a condition that was obviously rapidly improving?

When I asked how much all of this was going to cost, she told me that surgery would cost about 25,000RMB (BIG TIME $KACHING$), not including the post-operative care and treatment. She also told me that the �chief surgery professor� was doing to examine me later in the day and they wanted to schedule the surgery for the following morning. I told her that I wanted to think about this for a bit and while I was thinking I wanted to continue with the existing treatments. At that point she became quite exacerbated, and told me that I was being very irresponsible and that I would probably be dead within a week if I didn�t have the surgery done immediately! I wasn�t convinced. I told her that I would give her an answer after a day or two more of treatment. She then stormed out of my room, obviously angry, and muttering in Cantonese. Later that afternoon she returned with the �chief surgery professor�. He opened my shirt, thumped on my chest with his fingers for no more than 15 seconds, nodded his head and said something in Cantonese to the doctor, and left my room. That, I assume, was my 30 second �pre-op examination�. The doctor told me that �The professor says that we must do this operation right away�. I told her again that I would give her a decision after two more days. Again, more anger and Cantonese muttering.

On the morning of what I think was my 7th. Day in hospital, I got a new roommate. He was an elderly (I guess early eighties) man, accompanied by his wife (a bit younger), and two of (I assume) his children. His son seemed to be the more attentive of the two; while his daughter seemed a bit annoyed by the whole hospital business, and spent most of her time there with an exasperated look on her face while she talked very loudly into her mobile phone.

Over the next thirty six hours or so there was a constant procession of visitors to the old man. I can only assume from their crude behavior that they were from somewhere �out in the villages�. Let me give you an example. One of the visitors, a �30ish� man, insisted on smoking in the room. Remember, we are on the pulmonary floor! He ignored my pleas not to do that. I would ring for the nurse. When the nurse would ask him not to smoke in the room (there was a smoking room at the end of the hall), he would angrily grind his cigarette out on the floor! He would wait for about 5 minutes after the nurse left, and then light up another one. I couldn�t leave the room because I was plugged into an IV all of this time. After repeated calls to the nurse�s station to complain, the nurses simply ignored my calls. The �smoker� was also a �spitter�. When he got the urge to spit, he would walk past my bed, open the window, and spit out of it! My room was on the 7th. Floor.

On the afternoon of the last full day of my hospital stay, the �smoking spitter� and his clan came into the room just in time for my daily chest drainage procedure. Apparently, Chinese hospitals have never heard of something called a �privacy screen�. I certainly never saw one through my entire stay. When the team of three doctors began the procedure, the �smoking spitter� and two or three of his clan were gawking over the doctors� shoulders. I could hear them exclaiming �OOOOOOOOH!� �WOAAAAAAAAAAAH!� as the needle was inserted and the procedure progressed.

At about the time that the needle was fully inserted into my back, the �smoking spitter� lit up a cigarette, and the smoke made me start coughing; not exactly what one wants to do when there is a 3� needle perilously close to your lung! In response to my fit of coughing, one of the doctors told me angrily �DON�T COUGH LIKE THAT!� I then unleashed a stream of obscenities that would have curled the hair of even the saltiest of sailors. The procedure ended prematurely, and not a word was said to the �smoking spitter�.

Later that evening, my doctor came by to get my final word on the proposed surgery. I told her that, since I was feeling so much better than when I had been admitted, I had decided not to have the surgery at this time. I also told her that if I didn�t continue to improve, or if I had a relapse, that I would consider the surgery. She then told me that they had decided to lower the earlier quoted price of the surgery by about 6000 yuan. When I asked her how they were able to do that, she wasn�t very specific, but said that they would reduce the number of assigned nurses and move me from a semi-private room into a ward. Then she added, and I�m paraphrasing here, �But we can only guarantee this price if you agree to the surgery today.� That was all I needed to hear! I told her that I was no negotiating over this as I would over the price of a new kitchen appliance, and to please get my paperwork in order because I would be discharging myself from there in the morning.

In the 15 minutes or so that it took her to retrieve my X-rays, CT scan prints, and tally my bill, I received a call from the my employer�s HR person who pleaded with me to consent to the surgery, especially since it was being offered at a �much better price�. When the doctor returned with my paperwork, she presented me with a release form to sign, and again repeated here warning that I would probably be dead within a week without the surgery.

At around 10:00 the following morning, as I was standing in the queue at the cashier�s desk waiting to collect the 2000 yuan or so from the positive balance of my account, I got another call from the HR person. This time she seemed to be really in a panic. She asked �Are you really going to check out of the hospital?� I replied in the affirmative. She then screamed into the phone �YOU CAN�T DO THAT! YOU CAN�T DO THAT!� I told her to calm down because I already had. This was on the morning of November 9, 2007. Six days later I was fired from my job for unspecified reasons. I�ll leave it up to you to put all of the pieces together.

If this is the �best� that Zhuhai has to offer in medical care, I would certainly hate to see what the �worst� is.

[mike w]

[agarbers]

So the general consensus is that international health care is advised but it's only something used in major medical procedures. Everything else seems to be paid out of pocket, in cash, on arrival.

One person mentioned a place to get insurance quotes. Is there any company that some one has had good luck with?

[foreignDevil]

[Anda]

Go to this site and have a read and join if you like to ask questions. Most of us here on Dave's cannot afford expat insurance.


http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/index.php?name=MDForum&file=viewforum&f=28&sid=89ca5d44bd97ecf2938f60bbf2218de5

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[Jordean]