Job Discussion Forums

[njwebb]

Hello,

I am going to work in China from February to June 2009. I have 4 options; 2 public schools (one in Haimen middle school, one in Pingyang Primary school) and 2 private schools (one is New Jordan, based in Jinhua, one is BEST International School).

I have been reading posts about visas in this chatroom and I assumed that I needed to go out with a Z visa. The recruiter for the primary school contract said the following when I asked for a Z visa:

"Becuse you only work 4months ,so i think you can into China with travel visa ,i will ask school offer 6 month business visa for you ,i can tell you a lot of story that business visa is safe in China"

Does this happen very often? I do not want to risk having a horror story like those mentioned on this site. Any comments will be much appreciated.

Cheers

[kev7161]

From what I understand, you need a Z visa to work here LEGALLY. Your employer should take your Z visa upon your arrival and change it into a residence permit. This allows you to not only live legally in the country but freely move about, even cross borders easily (well, somewhat easily - NOTHING is truly ever easy in China!). Certainly some people work summer jobs here on a tourist or business visa, but those jobs are generally 2 to 4 weeks. I'm sure you'll get more "expert" advice on this question but ultimately you have to make up your own mind on how comfortable you feel in this situation.

[eddy-cool]

That recruiter is inciting you to break the law but if you get found out he will not be held responsible whereas you will.

If he also has several jobs on offer for you for four months each then obviously he is not a very reputable businessman. Ask yourself about his FT turnover.

Even if the police deport a laowai found working illegally in any one of these schools they will turn a blind eye for some time even when they see a new laowai face in the area.

They are happy to fulfill their five-year quota of illegal FTs caught and won't bother anyone for a while. But you don't know whether they have satisfied their boss about the quota yet...

[Sonnibarger]

you will be working illegally on a business visa... there are so many lagit jobs around that it makes no sense to accept a shifty one... If they are offering illegal work what else are they likely to do? If you are caught the punishment can vary from case to case.. sometimes the school may have connections that it will be no problem for you.. other times you may be expected to pay a heavy fine or even be forced to leave the country.. People seem to think that the police here have no idea what going on.. I can tell you thats not the case... some police actually do their jobs to the best of their ability... some smell a fat little bribe that can easily be taken from an unconnected laowai... either way it will fall squarely on you shoulders not the recruiter that is most likely living in a different city.

[arioch36]

Happens all the time, and if you read the last three weeks of posts you will hear the horror stories of people who did not come on a z-visa.

You can only work legally on a z-visa. That being said, if they gave you a six month F visa, you most likely would have no problems ... most likely. But again, for thos who read the posts here consistently, there scattered but consistent reports of the PSB )Public security bureau) periodically checking up on schools and the foreign teachers over this very matter.

Since you mentioned a recruiter, the other matter is that with a zvisa, you first get the work invitationletter that has a number specifying what school you are working at, Coming on other then a z visa, easy to get cheated, switched to another school, and on and on

And Sonnibarger is on the money, if somehting happens, the , "Oh the recruiter told me such and such" will not fly, it's all on you

[brsmith15]

Webby........steer far clear of this scam. The others are exactly right. If any problems arise, you'll find that your sponsor(s) have suddenly become invisible and as a newcomer you are now here, without contacts, and at everyone's mercy, which is just what they want. You will find that the quality of mercy in China is indeed strained....thru a rather incomprehensible and hopeless seive. It also dropeth not from Heaven but on thy unsuspecting lap!!

Run away!!

[Ms Bean]

This is my opinion. I have absolutely NO empirical knowledge with which to back this up:

Some schools that COULD be issued the Foreign Experts Certificate (the yellow document which is issued to American teachers in order for them to secure their Z visas) are encouraging western teachers to come on L-visas. I thought that was a bit strange until I learned that EIGHT schools that expressed an interest in me offered me the same deal: Come in on an L visa and then we'll change it for you. These were the same PUBLIC schools that offered ONLY one-term contracts. And these were not minor schools by any stretch of the imagination. I verified that the schools were authorized to procure letters of invitation/yellow Foreign Expert Certificates from the provincial government.

When I asked about a second term, I was told by the FAO offices that being offered a second term depended upon "how good a teacher" I am.

I consulted the recruiter whose office sent me literally dozens of offers and was told that "these conditions exist because of the increased concern regarding the quality of the western teachers they've been seeing."

Form your own conclusions, but I am willing to guess that if a teacher enters China on an L-visa, the school has time to scope out the new arrival. If it appears that he/she is in some way undesirable, they can turn the teacher out. There's no record of a contract, and the PSB doesn't get involved.

Scenario two: a one-term contract: If the school doesn't like the teacher, there's no obligation on the part of the school to retain him.

A school where I taught a number of years ago brought in four new teachers this fall term, three of whom were late arrivals from within the country who negotiated much higher salaries than the published standard salaries.

The FAO and a long term teacher at the university told me that they were sorry that they even hired them, and that they were considering "incentives" (that could be anything from a bus ticket to an airport to god-knows-what) for them to leave at the end of the first term. That school will begin offering one-term contracts.

I refused the L visa route from all, and when I asked for a two-term contract from one, the school requested a third letter of recommendation from a foreign university (which I gladly produced). I was sent a contract to inspect, and when all questions were answered to my satisfaction, I sent a letter of intent, and the school overnighted the required paperwork.

Please don't flame me for my observations.

[Teatime of Soul]

It is my understanding that a Z Visa (hence FRP) cannot be issued for employment contracts less than six months.

Regardless, it seems risky on the part both parties to go with a one term employment offer. Not to mention the potential legalities.

If it were me, I'd decline employment that did not include a Z visa.

That Z visa represents a commitment on the part of a school, an acceptance of responsibility for the welfare of the teacher.

If a school is legally empowered to offer a Z visa, and declines to do so, I'd be concerned as a potential employee.

[eddy-cool]

I think the claim that work visas are not given for jobs that last less than 5 months is valid.

That is why F visas are accepted. WIth invitation letter, of course.Not 'F' visas through some travel agent.

[arioch36]

Bean

[njwebb]

Perfect! Thank you for all of your feedback, I will let the recruiter know that I have decided to go with another contract. One of my other contracts (Haimen Dongzhou Middle School) have offerd me 4500RMB/month for 20 hours/week next term. I found this contract through a recruiter, a different one to the dodgy visas but I'm a bit dubious about this one too as I have found the job I have been offered advertised for more money on other sites. I tried asking the recruiter and the employer directly for 500RMB more but they refused flat out. Do you think that the recruiter may be taking a cut off of my wage?

The other two options are 25 hours teaching for 'BEST International Schools' for 7000RMB/month or 30 hours (20 hours teaching, 10 hours admin) for New Jordan Kindergartens for 6000RMB/month.

I was going to go for the middle school as I thought it would be more of a challenge teaching Middle school children but have decided (on your advice) if they do not offer me a Z visa before I travel, I will not go.