Job Discussion Forums

[geaaronson]

I am putting this on the Mexican thread rather than any other for two reasons-first, there are problems with instructing Mexicans on correct English that are particular to Spanish speakers because of the construct of their language as opposed to others; secondly, because I know or have communicated so often with most of you that I think of you as my friends.

I am trying to compile a list of common grammatic and linguistic mistakes that Mexican students learning English make to give out in list form to future students so as to reassure them that the common mistakes they do mistake are widespread and they stand in good company and also, to point out what is necessary for them to learn to speak English correctly.

To that end, I will enclose in this posting a few common mistakes my students in diverse classes have been making, and anticipate your feedback and add ins.

1) �all the day� for �all day�

2) forgetting to change third person present verb tenses

3) �We are holding on for the last student to show up for class before we begin�. More correct usage dictates, �we are waiting for.....�or �the last students are holding us up....� Students assumed that the imperative �HOLD ON PLEASE�when answering the phone on behalf of someone else whose attention requires a short time of waiting enabled them to use that phrasal verb in its active usage without a change of meaning.

4) �next Friday�when talking about a Friday two days coming. �Next Friday�usually designates the Friday of the upcoming, next week, not the Friday of the same week.

5) Usually night begins at say 5 or 6 p.m. in the early evening for most native speakers, and although some native speakers would refer to a 5:30 p.m. appointment as afternoon, from my experience its generally regarded as early evening, not afternoon from where I come from(New England). Does anyone have a different take on this? I`ve had highly English proficient Mexican teachers refer to this time as afternoon. No way, in my book.

[MikeySaid]

Unnecessary use of articles when saying "next week" or "last week" (or month or year)

Because you say "la semana pasada" or "el proximo mes" they can't seem to get away from it.

We use "the next week" but only when talking about a time other than the present.

Example: "On September 5th he will arrive in Moscow, and the next week he will leave for St. Petersberg."


Also:
It seems to me that the -s ending in verbs conjugated for tu, and the lack of an s in those conjugated for ud/el/ella confuse them and cause them to misplace the -s ending in English.

[ls650]

Maybe your students are confused because rules are not always rock solid, even for native speakers. For example, in your example below, I would always refer to 5:30 PM as late afternoon, never early evening. To me, evening doesn't really come until after 6 or 7 o'clock.

[MO39]

Re the incorrect use of "afternoon" by Spanish speakers, keep in mind that in Mexico, it's usually "buenas tardes" until the sun sets.

[Milenka]

[ontoit]

Strange as it may seem to say, we need to emphasize that L2 is not L1 with L2 words.


The common mistakes are based on the fundamental misunderstanding that the phrasing and vocabulary of one's language can be understood by simply replacing them with words from another's language.

This lesson may take time, but it is worth the effort.

[hlamb]

all the people do something all time
persons (I know this is correct in certain situations, but they simply use it as a plural of person)
the house of my aunt

[Jetgirly]

I was teaching in a high school, but my biggest problems were with punctuation. I would have students turn in sentences with 300+ words, using "so" thirteen times where periods and new sentences were needed.

[MO39]

[Milenka]

[notamiss]

Most if not all of the above errors could be committed by Spanish speakers from anywhere. In contrast, here is a construction that is peculiar to Mexico as far as I know. Even Spanish speakers from other countries will insist that this Mexican idiom is "wrong" (see for example some of the comments here: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/891770). I'm referring to the suppression of "no" with "hasta".

Cierran hasta las 10. = They don't close until 10 o'clock.

Since this idiom is perfectly normal to Mexican speakers, they will carry it over into English; "I was so busy last night I went to bed until one o'clock in the morning." "Press the red button until the warning buzzer goes off." "I'll get my degree until I finish my social service." "The melody descends until bar 28."

[MO39]

[notamiss]

Here is some more discussion about hasta among Spanish speakers and Spanish second-language speakers from different countries: http://www.proz.com/forum/spanish/99175-como_usamos_hasta.html.

[El Gallo]

I find these errors more common in students who have been taught English in Spanish. Instead of learning to think in English, they are allowed to try to translate from Spanish and more frequently have teachers who teach them in Spanish and allow Spanish in the classroom.

It's a terrible problem to overcome as a tutor because these students sit back and wait a few seconds for a Spanish translation instead of being forced to understand in English.

In the private language schools, parents have complained because I refuse to speak any Spanish after the third week of basic. When the parents complained, the owner got nervous and replaced me in the lower levels with a Mexican who spoke a lot of Spanish and compounded the problem when I inherited these students in the higher levels.

One school in Tuxtla, Canadian Center, prohibits Spanish after a few weeks of Intro. The rules are very strict and Spanish is not allowed even in the hallways. The differences in their students' ability to think and speak in Englsih is extraordinary.

[ontoit]