Job Discussion Forums

[dah216k]

This may be the wrong forum section to post this, but here goes anyway.

~Beware Beijing-based New Oriental Foreign Language Schools
(Do not confuse this with similar-sounding 'New Oriental')

Be aware that Beijing New Oriental Foreign Language Schools (BNOFLS) located in many of China's major cities will not employ foreign teachers to be actual language teachers or instructors. English-speaking Chinese instructors assume the actual teaching role in classes separate from yours. Meanwhile, you will be touting BNOFLS's so-called 'new philosophy' for English; only playing games and songs, but not actually involved in anything that can be reasonably termed as 'teaching' or 'instruction'. Textbooks are frowned upon and their use discouraged in class. A common complaint among foreign teachers appears to be the absence of a 'job description' for foreign English teachers which is ambiguously or never clearly defined. Many teachers at BNOFLS, domestic and foreign, express their doubts as to whether this actually works and impromptu discussions during the last year reveal a culture of intimidation against those who don't play ball.

So, don't expect that TEFL/TSOL qualification to be much use at BNOFLS.

Thousands of Chinese parents become swayed by a sales pitch and dazzled by a superficial reputation that would have them believe that its 'new philosophy' produces high rates of examination success for children enrolled here. In fact, pass rates at Chinese state-owned schools are, on average, much higher and the standard of spoken English much better. If a much publicized reputation improves future employment prospects on a resume, then so be it, even though most parents seem blissfully unaware that a business strategy is at work and profit-making is more important than rendering a quality of teaching to their children.

Then again, how can students produce high rates in exams when they are forced to take eight exams in one day? Foreign teachers report that they are 'tacitly persuaded' to falsify exam results that can only maintain the artificial reputation of BNOFLS. Foreign teachers report that students routinely break down, cry, start fights, or express their anger physically or verbally against teaching staff, foreign included. One disturbing fact, if its any measure of how serious the situation has become, is that every classroom has cameras installed to monitor events, or more accurately, to monitor you for alleged 'evaluation and assessment purposes.' Teaching methods that deviate from 'the norm' (whatever that may be) or again, failure to play ball with an untold number of secret rules and regulations are not without repercussion that can border on personal intimidation in some cases.

Accordingly, an air of tension hangs heavy around the confines of campus, perhaps as a result of pressure that comes with long working hours (including some weekends and evenings). But the workload is enough to keep you confined to campus for most of the week with very little free time to explore this wonderful country. Many foreign and Chinese teachers frequently express a desire to leave at the end of the semester symptoms that resemble either exhaustion or depression that leaves BNOFLS always searching for more teachers.

There are thousands of great schools in China where the whole teaching experience is more rewarding, where the game plan is clearly defined, which leaves you with a great sense of personal achivement, and where you won't be forced to wash out of a bucket of cold water in the dead of winter because the electric and hot water is turned off in a vain effort to save money!

POSTSCRIPT: I see from an article in a recent copy of the China Daily that BNOFLS is in court once again for copyright infringement... go figure!

[clark.w.griswald]

I don't have persnal experience with this school but some of the comments made seem quite relevant to comments often made about kids buxibans in Taiwan. Private language schools for children haven't been around for very long in China and seem to be following the Taiwan traditions. Probably because many of these schools have their foundations in Taiwan.

So my comments below relate to Taiwan kids buxibans, but I believe that they probably have a relevance to the comments made here.

[Sevarem]

Where are you getting your information?

Currently I work at Beijing New Oriental Foreign Language School in Yangzhou. From my personal experience and from listening to the stories of others, this is certainly one of the better places to work in China.

[Roger]

OK, so you posted this in both China forums...
You must have a big chip on your shoulders!

I am not sure if this New Oriental School is the same that made big headlines about 5 years earlier, but it might be.

At that time, a Peking-based New Oriental School found itself taken to court by its American partner for fraudulent behaviour.
The U.S. side was the supplier of examination papers (if I remember well, the courses were designed to end in a TOEFL test).
The Chinese side used the same papers time and again,ignoring cooperative agreements signed by the American and Chinese sides and thus swindling the western party to the contract out of a non-negligible amount of dues.
The court found in favour of the foreign partner! The story was reported rather widely by the international media.

I personally heard insider rumours about the school hiring FTs to polish student compositions prior to having them submitted to overseas-based universities;also flattering recommendations were expected to be written on Chinese English students by these FTs.

Surely not very ethical tactics!

But I am not sure it was that New ORiental - since, as you said, there seem to be more than one...

On another topic: I disagree with the claim made above that Chinese teachers are better suited to teach grammar! They do very often "know" grammar, but most of them don't understand it!
It is also true that a good many FTs don't know how to teach grammar - because their job requirements don't call for familiaritywith this special subject!
We are, unfortunately, used to - as said above - "enthuse" our Chinese charges.
This is, apparently, necessary because no one really wants to learn a foreign language in China. So, while it is true that any training centre is set up with money being its prime focus, the same can be said of the majority of FTs.

[vikdk]

a roger quote

[vikdk]

sorry Roger - I'm just trying to make you a nicer person - and by the way some of your most recent posts are written in a far politer tone than before - good boy, keep it up!

[dah216k]

Thank-you for the replies guys. It all made for interesting reading.

Firstly, I do accept the fact that there are a lot of Chinese English teachers who can teach grammar better than most FTs. We all do our best to provide a clear and intelligent answers when kids ask such questions. Even though the presence of a Chinese teacher would make this a whole lot easier, it does not necessarily mean that a Chinese teacher should be there at every lesson. I knew of one person who even teaches Chinese students with learning difficulties and manages just fine on his own. But this just shows what can be done.

As one respondent said, textbooks do not necessarily make students more enthused, but any FT who genuinely cares about how their students learn knows that exercise/textbooks are integral part of lesson planning that, when used with other materials, like language tapes or multimedia, can make for some interesting lessons. For example, we all know how books (not necessarily language-based textbooks) can provide a good 'mental picture' for younger students of situations appropriate to the lesson theme or when a more visual representation of grammar/vocab is needed.

As mentioned above, many schools in China do not require their FTs to have TEFL and the like, let alone any kind of previous experience, and BNOFLS is certainly the case. It is not fussy about who it employs and advertisements (can't quite remember the wording in Chinese), that state something like FTs are 'qualified' and/or 'experienced' is so misleading to parents who shell out large fees for their kids to be taught by pretty much anybody who walks in off the street.

FTs at BNOFLS are also 'marketing tools' (as is the case with many schools, as one respondent mentioned above) but all this feeds back into preserving an image over the reality or the importance of profit-making over any genuine care about hiring quality FTs.

No disrespect to FTs anywhere intended, but I have been lucky to discuss these and other issues with several dissatisfied parents of children at BNOFLS who expressed their dissatisfaction at the poor performance of FTs who seem to contribute very little to the actual 'teaching' of English.

Oh, by the way Sevarem... you wanted to know where I'm getting my information? It would be really unprofessional to name my sources. And you're in Yangzhou? By all accounts, my only advice to you would be to run... don't look back... just keep running! You'll be doing yourself big a favor !

[Roger]

[Sevarem]

[dah216k]

Sevarem, your're living under an illusion. Get a real job!

Suggestion: Try teaching ! Its fun ! Give it a go!

[takahiko]

Hey! I used to work at Beijing New Oriental in Yangzhou... or 'Camp X-Ray' as I used to call it.

I was sickened and disgusted at what went on there. Luckily, I was able to negociate a termination of my contract with the top boss. I stuck it for one term only, but only because I had to wait until the end of term before I could start my real job. The only job satisfaction I ever got was ripping-up those ridiculous 'behavioural assessment reports' all foreign teachers have to do each week right in front of my students!

I reserved most of my creative energies and for actual (non-paid - volunteer) productive teaching work off-campus in, for example, teaching a student outside of New Oriental who entered (and won!) the regional English Speaking Competition. Or, having the pleasure to be a (non-paid) 'guest teacher' at some less-fortunate schools in the countryside far away from Yangzhou that lack the type of funding for amenities that schools in bigger cities enjoy. Had to do this on the quiet, of course... but it was the only time I ever felt like I was doing the real work of an ESL teacher!!!

Luckily, because Yangzhou is a medium-sized city job offers at PROPER SCHOOLS are not hard to come by. I managed to secure a much better job in less than two months of my arrival, but it left me enough time to formulate an 'exit strategy').

I'm travelling again very soon, but I am glad that forums like this exist for the frank and honest exchange of opinions about the types of schools to avoid. I think thats important for everyone thinking about teaching in China (or anywhere else) and the types of schools to definitely avoid !!. I'll login again soon!
S

[Joe C.]

[sankofa]

10 Reasons not to work at Beijing New Oriental Foreign Language School at Yangzhou if you are a trained TESOL professional

1. No Curriculum for Foreign Teachers
The only so called curriculum BNOFLS offers Foreign Teachers is a binder full of songs and lists of unrelated vocabulary from the glossary of the cheesy Fun With English textbooks. All Teachers in the primary school are required to teach songs. Teachers of grades 1 & 2 are required to teach 40 songs per semester and teachers of grades 3-6 are required to teach 20 songs per semester. Thus, foreign teachers are rewarded based on the number of songs students know and how well their students sing even if the students can barely answer simple questions like �How old are you?�

Also teachers are strongly encouraged to teach, or review a song every class and because classes are only 30 minutes long most days students have done nothing more than sing songs (if the teacher follows such guidelines). While songs can be an excellent approach to language acquisition this is only one of many approaches that should be used, yet at BNOFLS foreign teachers in the primary school are strongly encouraged to teach with songs.

Teachers undergo two weeks of in service training which actually boils down to two weeks of meetings about singing songs, Total Physical Response (TPR) and making puppets (These three approaches are supposed to get teachers through the entire year).

2. Conflicting Teaching Guidelines
Being that there is no curriculum besides a book of songs or a list of unrelated vocabulary words, teachers are constantly given conflicting messages about teaching guidelines. At the beginning of the school year teachers were encouraged to use games, songs and fun as tools of learning. However, once the parents and Chinese teachers got wind of this, instead of the western Assistant Principal simply explaining that �when the educational environment provides challenges and rich sources of stimulation which include music, games, humor, and communicative approaches to language acquisition it sparks intrinsic motivation�and intrinsic motivation raises students� natural curiosity and interest which promotes learning,� (Joel Bacha, Play & Affect in Language Learning) teachers were reprimanded and told to lecture more.

3. Extremely Unprofessional Environment
Requirements to work at BNOFLS are extremely low as a teacher need not have any type of secondary degree, TESOL or TEFL certification, or be a native English speaker. The main requirements to obtain a teaching position at BNOFLS are to have a high school diploma, have a good phone interview and be a foreigner (even if English wasn�t your first language).

Teachers show movies several times during the week instead of actually teaching students.

Many teachers are allowed to put anything on their lesson plans because they know the supervisor only reads them when he is visiting the classes to assess the teachers, which happens about 5 or 6 times a year and all teachers are notified when he is going to be visiting classes. Thus when Monday morning arrives most teachers have no clue what they are going to do so they give out meaningless paper work.

Teachers have come to work hung over and no punitive measures were ever taken besides a lecture to all the foreign teachers about professionalism

Often one easily feels as if they are in college all over again because of the child-like behavior that is constantly displayed by foreign teachers which is partly because more than half of the foreign teachers are straight out of college or in their early twenties.

4. Students Generally Have No Respect for Foreign Teachers
This is fed to them by jealous Chinese English Teachers (jealous because foreign teachers work fewer hours than them while making more money). So many foreign teachers are constantly undermined by the Chinese staff at the school. Students are told that the foreigners are not really teachers and that they are only there to play with the students. Thus many students develop an indignant attitude with foreign teachers especially in grades 3-high school. This is not such a prevalent problem in the lower primary school (grades 1-2).

5. Extremely Low Salary in Relation to Work Responsibilities
Foreign teachers of the primary school usually work from 10am until about 4pm with a 2 hour lunch break (13 hours of teaching and 2 hours for the staff meeting per week) , which seems like the ideal work schedule. However because of this schedule foreign teachers are always on call.
*If a teacher is sick classes are never canceled, another foreign teacher will be called upon to cover the sick teacher�s class regardless of any plans the other teacher may have had for their free time.

*If a teacher decides to leave the school their classes are dumped on other teachers with no extra pay.

*Teachers are required to attend all extra-curricular activities at BNOFLS and there are many.

*When the school celebrates X-mas teachers are forced to attend evening activities in addition to their normal teaching schedule.

*On the Friday the school celebrates Halloween teachers are forced to teach their normal class schedule then attend a parade in the afternoon. Also the day before, during the evening teachers are asked to dress up in costumes and pass out candy to all 3,000 students (not every teacher sees all 3,000 students; teachers are given a list of classes to pass out candy to).

*Teachers have to be on hand on the weekends that the school hosts the citywide sports fair which takes place twice during the year and are asked to participate in the sports events and be on call all day.

*Teachers are required to write articles for the school news paper without compensation.

*Teachers are required to greet and entertain perspective parents and students numerous times during the year when the school is advertising for the following school year.

*Teachers are required to participate in numerous talent shows throughout the school year where they sing songs and juggle for the parents.

*Teachers are required to participate in English Corner

*Teachers are required to attend school field trips, which last all day (5:30am until 5 or 6pm).

In the contract foreign teachers are guaranteed 5000 RMB, yet taxes are taken out, which leaves 1st year teachers with 4925 RMB per month instead of the contractual 5000 RMB.

Salary schedule at BNOFLS: Year 1: 5,000 RMB per month
Year 2: 6,000 RMB per month
Year 3: 6,500 RMB per month
Year 4: 7,000 RMB per month (salary cap)
Note: These quotes are pretax

6. Extremely Low Teacher Retention
Of the 19 foreign teachers that worked at BNOFLS last year only 5 returned (2 of which are not native speakers and a third who only has a high school diploma so BNOFLS is likely the best deal they can get in China).

7. Management Demonstrates No Working Knowledge of TESOL, TEFL or Basic ESL Methodology
Management: �The students are having too much fun in your class. I want you to lecture more.�

Teachers are encouraged to teach the entire year using only songs and TPR nothing else when there are numerous other methods that can be utilized as well. However, anything outside the established norm is frowned upon.

8. The School Constantly Encroaches on Teacher�s Personal Time.
Besides the numerous extra-curricular activities teachers are required to participate in, teachers are constantly hounded about socializing with the other foreign teachers.

*Teachers are expected to attend the foreigners X-mas and Thanksgiving festivities regardless of whether or not they are Christians and feel comfortable celebrating such occasions.

*Teachers are also expected to attend the numerous Birthday parties throughout the year. After the 7th persons Birthday party this becomes annoying.

After a while one begins to feel like they can never get a moment�s rest between the students, parents, and other foreign teachers. While these activities are not required, if teachers decide not to participate they will be confronted by the assistant principal.

9. Lack of Privacy
At BNOFLS the management is extremely gossipy. Thus, foreign teachers personal issues are almost always put on the grapevine and eventually both foreign and Chinese teachers know all about your personal affairs. One might suggest just keeping all personal business to one�s self, however the foreign affairs office is privy to much of foreign teachers personal information, thus they notify the assistant principle of any information they want and the gossip begins to spread like a virus.

10. Heavy Bias towards Foreign Teachers from America
Of the 16 foreign teachers currently working at BNOFLS, 13 are Americans. This is not much of a surprise as the western Assistant Principal is American. Additionally a hand full of the foreign teachers that work at BNOFLS come from the assistant principal�s home state. This only becomes a problem when a vote has to be made about things that affect all the foreign teachers like: which meals will be served at western breakfast & lunch, how the laundry facilities and the kitchen should be shared, etc. and the group of young Americans tends to vote similarly, which can become extremely annoying if you have a different perspective because you will always be outnumbered when it comes time to make decisions.



If you are still interested in working at BNOFLS at Yangzhou, make sure that you understand that you are being hired for publicity. BNOFLS parades their foreign teachers around to Chinese parents as a means of enrolling more students thus making more money. If you understand this fully you may have a wonderful time working at BNOFLS. That way when you�re asked a couple of days in advance to sing a song or juggle for the Chinese parents� amusement during one of the many talent shows you won�t be shocked, annoyed or feel embarrassed.

[ODIN]

Many of the problems mentioned here are are not so serious on there own but altogether can be hellish. For some of the problems ie, teachers hungover I would complain to the school. Parents see that crap with the FT'S we all look bad and unproffessional. In my first school i through a teacher out of the school because he was drunk as a lord and walking sraggewring around the place, and he wasn't a teacher at my school so i have no problems doing it to one who is.
As for the extra duties in many contracts we're asked to attend sports days and thing's like that, but is stated in the contract this is nothing special. If you refuse then do so the school can't force you to work.
For the cooking of meals, cook your own.
About the christmas and or Halloween all the schools i have worked for try and get teachers to attend, these can be fun but not forced upon I usually go abd give the kids support if there doing something.
As for you doing singing or dancing. Your not a show monkey so say NO, simple as that. The guy in charge maybe from the U.S. BUT I BET THEY DON'T FORCE TEACHERS THERE
So look at your contract, if a teacher leaves don't do the classes no pay no deal unless you want to , if yo do the classes nothing will change. Speak to the FAO and be polite about changes to attitude see what happens , give them a chance first

[ODIN]

please excuse the spelling,, I just noticed the mistakes