Job Discussion Forums

khmerhit · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:10 am Post subject: the future of the future tense

Notwithstanding the fact (or is it an assertion) that the Future Tense doesnt exist, it annoys me to see this useful tool cavalierly neglected by the illiterates that populate the news outlets where I live. The simple present has so overtaken the future, not to mention other tenses, that one day soon it will surely be extinct. Fictional example: "If things keep on like this, the tense is extinct for sure." AAAAAAAAAGGGGGRRGGH!

So I'm like, OMG, is this a good thing or a bad thing?---and does anyone, like, CARE? Sad

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

As much of a pain in the arse it is for students - I really like the variety of ways with which we can refer to the future in English.

jud · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 127 Location: Italy

I do too. It's a good example of why grammar is so important, for all those "conversation only" intermediate students, for subtlety, intention, etc.

My favourite example is "I'll spend Christmas in Rome." Oh, you just decided now? Or do you think it will happen? Versus, "I'm spending Christmas in Rome." Oh, that's nice, have a great time.

dduck · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 422 Location: In the middle

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

"The bus leaves in 5 minutes" Is this a fact? Which country are you refering to? "A Turkish bus driver once told me that and I was still there an hour later. Isn't the Simple Present used here because it is a timetable. "The sun rises evrey morning" is a fact

shmooj · Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK

fat_chris · Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 3198 Location: Beijing

What about the past of the past tense? That is another one that has seemed to have died a slow death. Well, my students certainly had a hearty hand in slaughtering it.

dduck · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 422 Location: In the middle

FGT · Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Turkey

The sun rises - every day
The wind blows - always
Johnslat knows... - and has known
I need a lie down - The need is present
The next job is around the corner - there's always another corner (?). Not sure, but I suspect this is the only example which is actually describing a FUTURE time.

6 different ways of describing future (am I right?) but how to test them?

I leave at 2am tomorrow
I'm leaving at 2 am tomorrow
I'm going to leave at 2am tomorrow
I'll be leaving at 2am tomorrow
I will have left at 2am tomorrow
I'll leave at 2am tomorrow

All of the above are "correct" but you have to know what I'm thinking to decide which is "best". How do we test our students, assuming that they are not mind readers?

dduck · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 422 Location: In the middle

FGT · Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 762 Location: Turkey

As a native speaker, and as a teacher with 11 years' experience, I get the differences. My students, too, from time to time, get the differences. I just feel that in an exam situation where a "fill in the blanks" type question is employed, there is frequently insufficient information in the context to justify the use of one version rather than another. Often there seem to be several "right" choices. I'm racking my brains to think of genuine examples.
Ah, OK, from memory, so it may not be exactly as printed:

"I won't see you tomorrow because I _________ early in the morning"
(ref. Language in Use Upper Intermediate workbook).

I think this could be "I'm leaving" (I've got the air ticket and the taxi booked), "I'll be leaving" (this is part of my itinerary), "I'll have left" (by the time you wake up/arrive at the office etc), "I'm going to leave" (this is my intention) etc.

Does anybody know of a better way to test this, or should we just tell our students that only the speaker knows what is the best in any one situation?

(And before anybody thinks I'm REALLY stupid, I'm not talking about obvious errors like "You dropped your books, I'm going to pick them up for you")

dyak · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 630

In a test recently there was a question on the use of will and going to. One student, however, used the present continuous which was also technically correct. I had to mark her answers wrong though as the question clearly stated use will or going to.

I just felt so ridiculous explaining to her why I'd had to mark it wrong, ok she didn't read the question, but for all intents and purposes she'd read the dialogue, filled in the gaps with an appropriate and correct form yet it was 'wrong'. I know, students don't read exam questions but still.

Confused

dduck · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 422 Location: In the middle

johnslat · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:11 pm Post subject: Wrong right answers

Dear dduck,
I agree. Lord knows I've made up hundreds - maybe thousands - of grammar exams and quizzes. And although I've always tried to make the directions quite clear and the possible correct answers extremely limited, I've also had students put in "wrong right answers". Whenever that happened, I'd always give them full marks, under the principle that you can't mark a right answer wrong. I did this even when the directions excluded that specific "right answer", although I always added an explanation to the effect that the student HAD BETTER THOROUGHLY READ THE DIRECTIONS NEXT TIME.
Regards,
John

Capergirl · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:50 pm Post subject:

@dyak...That's a tough one. Sad

I think I'd do what you did, though (mark the answers incorrect). I might offer her a retest, however, as she seemed to misunderstand the directions. I'd then remind her that in the future she should pay more attention to the directions on tests so as not to make the same unfortunate mistake again.