Job Discussion Forums

[john_n_carolina]

....believable? or just rumors? Feb. 2009?

if anyone hasn't seen the Turner video, about the Ameros being shipped to China...here it is --->

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1954933468700958565&hl=es

[Guy Courchesne]

I'd say there's a better chance of Canadian Tire money becoming the legal tender of the Americas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tire_money

[john_n_carolina]

...doesn't include Central/S.America. just Canada/U.S./Mexico

seems a bit farfetched to me...mainly, because that would be the end of thousands or more corporations that hold cash balances....for e.g. a company like WalMart must hold 100's of $millions in cash balances, that would be instantly worthless, and so would the company?

[TheLongWayHome]

Why so farfetched? I'm sure many would have said that the EU and the Euro were farfetched, even absurd after two world wars but a mere 50 or so years later, here we are. I'm sure the current, and probably manufactured economic crisis is part of the plan to urge it in.

[raulyn]

It's amazing how far the conspiracy theorists' reaches are. A lot of my Mexican friends have been asking me about this lately. The Mexican media must be connected with FOX news corp.

Reasons why it would never happen:

1. The United States dollar already acts as a global currency, meaning any transition to a 'new' currency would risk compromising this position and could cause a shift toward the euro or yen. The U.S. dollar is currently being used in over half of all the world's exports, double the total United States foreign trade. The adoption of the amero could threaten the seigniorage that the U.S. currently gains from its dollar. While seignorage would still be gained from the amero, this would be shared among the Bank of Canada, the Federal Reserve, and the Banco de M�xico. Therefore, even if the amero were used just as much as the U.S. dollar, the advantages would be shared among two or more countries, and not exclusively earned by the United States.

2. By submitting to a common currency, the countries would lose considerable autonomy in the management of the currency itself, including the setting of interest rates. ---Something the American system has been using to offset this current financial debacle.--- Canada would also have to give up its control of domestic inflation and interest rates. Amongst the three potential participants, there is considerable difference in policy which would have to be reconciled. All three countries have distinct financial policies: one based mainly on agriculture and manufacturing, with a demand for free trade (Mexico), another based on services such as retail, with low taxes and low public spending (United States), and a third based on services with higher taxes and higher public spending, with a large sector in primary goods such as oil, mining and lumber (Canada).

3. Debt is a factor affecting currency prices. As of 2008, the debt of the United States continues to increase, (50-Year Record on Sept. 22. $10 Trillion on Sept. 30, 2008) while the debt of the Canadian federal government is being reduced. This is a clear advantage for Canadians and it would not be reflected if the currencies were to merge.

--------In short.... it ain't ever gonna happen.

[scottmx81]

It isn't far fetched. People who think it is probably don't follow this stuff much. There is a concerted effort at the highest levels of government and corporate power in Canada, The United States and Mexico to harmonize laws across our countries and move towards the NAU. What is ridiculous is to believe that this isn't the direction we are moving towards in North America. However, it is being implemented without much debate in the popular media. This does not mean, though, that there isn't a lot of information out there.

The basic theory is that this is all taking place under the guise of the Security and Prosperity Partnership. While Barack Obama and others are out preaching about the evils of NAFTA, the governments of our three countries are actively taking the agreement to the next level. It was also leaked by the Canadian Prime Minister's Office that they were assured by the Obama campaign that the anti-NAFTA rhetoric was political grandstanding and nothing to be concerned about.

But if the SPP is actively being negotiated and implemented, which is an indisputable fact, how come there is little discussion of it in the popular media? Is taking NAFTA to the next level, in and of itself, not worthy of public discussion?

...doesn't include Central/S.America. just Canada/U.S./Mexico

seems a bit farfetched to me...

Technically, the SPP / NAU is a North American agreement. However, since this is a Mexico forum, I'll mention that Vicente Fox, the previous president of Mexico and of the same party as the current president, does suggest that long-term the new currency could include the rest of Latin America. See this video, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYGrn0hZlCQ

Here is another example of where he mentions it again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnSMxKVk0V4 (See: minute 5:00)

There is enough evidence out there that it is at least being considered and cheered for by people at the highest levels of government and power, such as Vicente Fox in this example, that to brush it all off as a crazy conspiracy theory would be foolish.

That said, I don't believe that Hal Turner has a real Amero coin. Nor do I believe that they have already been minted or are being distributed. But to disregard the entire idea of the NAU and Amero based on proof that his coin is from a private collectors mint isn't very wise.

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[Guy Courchesne]

Does anyone honsetly think Americans - nevermind Canadians and Mexicans - would accept this? Not by a long, long margin. Chalk this one up in the same column as the Y2K bug and Elvis sightings.

[scottmx81]

Does anyone honsetly think Americans - nevermind Canadians and Mexicans - would accept this? Not by a long, long margin.

What do you suppose they would or could do about it? If the Liberals and Conservatives were for it, the Republicans and Democrats were for it, as well as the PAN in Mexico, who would be able to do anything to stop it?

The only people likely to take to the streets in any meaningful protest would be the AMLO type supporters in Mexico. If Americans have sat by and watched the latest bailout debacle, and have done little more than bitch and moan a bit, before shrugging their shoulders and continuing on with their regular routine, I have little reason to believe that more than a handful of activists in Canada and the US would actively resist the NAU and the Amero if they were told that it had to be done for reasons of national security and to avoid a major economic catastrophe or attacks on North America by a foreign power or terrorists.

I believe that if the powers that be decide to go ahead with it, that it won't be officially announced until it is too late for anyone to do anything about it. It is obviously an unpopular idea amongst ordinary middle-class people. I wouldn't expect to see much open, public debate about it until it is already here.

Do you deny that anyone that matters even supports the idea? I can't say whether or not it will happen, but I certainly think it is being discussed very seriously behind closed doors.

[Guy Courchesne]

Well, we'll have to see. I think that a changeover from the dollar, dollar, and peso to some figment of fantasy called the Amero is vastly different from a bailout. Apples to oranges...no, not oranges. Apples to little green men on Mars rather. Time will have to tell.

First date up from the video linked above is February 2009. If there's a switch to the Amero, I'll be the first to buy rounds at the bar with the new currency.

Longwang compared the rise of the Euro to this...I don't think that's adequate. Europe had a very long run-up including the Common Market. There's been no such thing in NA...NAFTA doesn't even compare to the close-knit nature of many decades of history in Europe.

[john_n_carolina]

Many good points from above:

Scott, you mentioned (as did the video) that we / anyone wouldn't be alerted, or alerted fast enough. that seems logical because the value of the $ would be virtually 0 because we wouldn't even be able to pay the interest on the outstanding debt. hence, a switchover.

however, if they did switch in say a 5 day period or whatever, it would still be DEFCON 4 and probably the end of the world. there would be no value to anything, including corporations. so, if there are no corporations, there is no food or health or gasoline (to power military).

if they did switch over, what would the time period be, if you had to guess??

[john_n_carolina]

then, Guy makes some excellent points also. i remember the Common Market back when i was starting college in '88 i think....maybe it started in the early 90's not sure. so, Europe and the rest of the big European countries had some time to experiment with tariff free trade, common currency trading, and common item markets.

also, if i'm correct, the $ is actually making a comeback in Europe. my parents were there in Sept. with the Euro at 1.47/$1. now, it's 1.27/$1...a signficant strengthening.

as with monetary policy, a 20 cent move is significant in this case. also, trends show that currency markets don't fluctuate wildly like a startup software company might. they stay solid like GE or something. so, if the $ is strengthening at 1.2 right now, it will probably get stronger if Obama gets in. (at least that's what my relatives in Europe say)

[scottmx81]

I think that a changeover from the dollar, dollar, and peso to some figment of fantasy called the Amero is vastly different from a bailout.

Have you not noticed that the global financial system, with the US at the helm, is teetering on the brink of collapse? If the financial system were to collapse, it is not unreasonable to expect that there might be major changes. The collapse of the U.S. dollar could quite conceivably lead to the Amero and/or North American Union.

Hal Turner didn't invent the concept of the Amero. But forwarding this video with its collector coin to everyones friends is evidently much more entertaining than forwarding boring, but slightly more intelligent stuff like this:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7854

This site, globalresearch.ca, has a lot of great information about current events, from an alternative perspective. It is run by a professor of economics at the University of Ottawa, which if I'm not mistaken, is your home-town. I like this site knowing that it is based here in Ontario and run by a professor at a university in our nation's capital.

It's a shame that someone who probably is a stereotypical tinfoil-hatter can cause others to so easily disregard an otherwise thought-worthy idea.

[john_n_carolina]

....yes, very good points Scottmx81. i remember even reading about some of this during college in the early 90's with NAFTA, etc. then later, with some 'pocket' communities in the U.S. for e.g. Ithaca, N.Y. i believe uses their own currency for small item purchases, etc around town. i don't believe they use it within the city gov't, but to buy a pastrami on rye, i think you can use some other kind of currency.

so, i also agree with you that there are a lot of 'meetings' going on/have gone on that are behind closed doors and curtains.

in addition, i believe the switchover to the Euro went pretty smooth for most countries. some countries lost more than others, e.g. NL. and some made out better than others, e.g. Spain.

i think most people will agree that it is 'partly' believable. whether it happens in our lifetime maybe most people can't come to believe.

for me, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to believe it. after all, i'm a current / active member of the Bigfoot Field Researchers Organization of N.A.

[TheLongWayHome]

[Guy Courchesne]

I wouldn't discount the possibility of a North American union...not at all. But not next week. Like you say, stepping stones.

The biggest problem here would be Mexico. The core European countries that formed the EU were all comparable in size, history, and government type. Grafting Mexico onto the economic behemoth that is the US is no easy task. I mean cripes, they are still building the 10 foot wall between the two countries, and now we're talking union?