Job Discussion Forums

[London_guy]

All,

I am about to leave my job as an analyst in London to become an English teacher in China or Singapore. This may seem like a crazy move (especially as it wil involve a considerable pay cut), but after graduating last year (I am 23) I have since found that the "office" world is not all that good for me. I feel like I need a new focus and would like to do something that is rewarding while at the same time see some of the world.

I have a MSc degree and a BA (Hons) degree in business subjects and will be studying for the CELTA before I leave. I also have basic Mandarin (through evening classes). However, I am worried that I will not be able to secure a job.

I have heard that schools / education institutes only use the fact that somebody has a degree in order for them to obtain a visa. Therefore, my question is: Do you think employers would like to hire me or will they think that I am too likely to ask questions and look for higher paid jobs - i.e. too much of a risk for them?

After reading this through a couple of times, I appreciate it may sound a little arrogant. However, I really do not mean to come across that way and would be very very grateful for any help or tips in finding a suitable teaching job in Asia.

Many thanks
London_guy

[sojourner]

Hi London Guy,

With an MSc,a BA(Hons),and a CELTA,you'll have no trouble,whatsoever,picking up a job in the PRC ! However,with those qualifications you shouldn't waste your time working in a language school - try for a job in a university.Also,with business qualifications you should look beyond merely teaching Oral English - look for jobs involving the teaching of Business English or, better still,the teaching of accountancy,economics,marketing,or whatever.If you are really keen to teach something involving ESL,you could consider the field of EAP (English for Academic Purposes),where you could,for instance,be preparing graduates in business subjects for postgraduate programmes in English-speaking countries.

Try submitting your resume to "Dave's Resume Posting Service" (or whatever it's called) - I'm certain that you'll soon be inundated with job offers ! But you'd better apply soon,as the next term here will begin in early or mid February.Just one other thing that should be borne in mind: don't accept the first attractive offer that comes from an institution that calls itself a "university" ! Unfortunately, the regulations pertaining to the use of the term "university" are pretty slack here.So,you'll get plenty of offers from "universities" whose academic standards are ONLY JUST on par with polytechnics or TAFE colleges.If in doubt,submit a query to Dave's.

Apart from "Dave's Resume Service",you may also wish to contact some of the consortia of British and Australian universities which have recently set up shop here.Contact me by PM for the addresses of a couple.The salaries offered by these consortia are usually much higher than those paid by Chinese unis.

Don't feel that prospective employers will think that you are over-qualified. Having foreign teachers with Masters and PhDs is good for a Chinese university's image !

For Singapore,you may wish to enquire through their Ministry of Education for positions in the senior secondary sector.(PM me for the www address).Alternately,do a search for polytechnics,etc - you might be able to pick up a job teaching business subjects.

Good luck,

Peter

[sojourner]

London Guy,

Just one other thing.I vaguely recall that the consortia I mentioned in my last posting usually require that their applicants for teaching postions have had a couple of years experience.But it might still be worth enquiring,in case they're experiencing recruitment difficulties.

Regards,

Peter

[Roger]

And here my personally coloured reply.
Yes, you will be well qualified for the best jobs available here. But, what's "best jobs" in a country like China where the teaching of English is in its infancy? You will not need your university education at the teaching front - you will need it to prove that you deserve a job.
I second the suggestion you aim for a public school (college or uni) so that your work will be somewhat more stable, and, perhaps, more intellectually stimulating. You may have a chance of doing some real teaching though you mustn't expect it: even universities schedule "oral English" classes. I personally consider such things as humbug. Nobody needs to be taught "oral..." this or oral that language; just today, I told a somewhat puzzled person that it doesn't matter what face or skin colour I have - anybody can speak, albeit their first tongue; try to speak a second tongue with your own peers. It's what YOU decide to do, not what topic I decide you should tackle, that determines your success. Chinese really believe they have "no opportunity" at practising speaking English, which in my experience as a student of other languages just holds no water at all.
End of my rant!

However, should you go for a real school job be prepared to accept a pay level one-third to half lower than a language mill job would be. So-called "institutes" offer up to double the pay (albeit for more working hours and fewer holidays). At first glance, their remuneration packages look really a lot more appetising. As said, public schools reward you with more spare time (which you may succed in selling at decent hourly rates). In any case, language schools are not schools, they are mere businesses that experience market forces one way and the other as well. Right now, some are in the doldrums. January-February is holiday season - many teachers will be in technical unemployment.

You cannot negotiate a more advantageous deal from a pujblic school as the salary for an expat has to be approved by authorities that are impervious to your arguments. Expect monthly pay of somewhere around 4000 to 5000 for considerably less than 20 periods a week (plus two weeks of paid leave during spring festival and another two weeks later). Some language schools pay 4000 to 5000 for 20 hours a week, no holidays; others pay double, but expect you to commute to various customers.

As for Singapore, I would say, forget it. It's a nice holiday destination, though nothing more for you and me! Unlike the PRC Chinese, they know how to teach it without the illusion of having "foreign faces" prodding them on!

[shenyanggerry]

Roger, where do universities pay 4000-5000 RMB per month? I have a BA and a TESL Cert (full academic year). I got 3500. On the way home I met another ex-pat with similar qualifications. He was amazed that I made as much in my first go as he was making after twelve years.

I made inquiries at the local medical university on behalf of a friend. He has a BSc, Msc, and a Doctorate in Veterinary Medicine. They offered 3000 per month. I told them to forget it.

Edited to fix typo.

[Roger]

Okay, so some still pay only 3000 to 3500. My next job is with a Guangzhou university, and they are paying 4000 for 16 periods a week. I also asked about the visa, and learnt, much to my consternation, that they would be paying for a singlen entry work visa; I have never had a single-entry visa in all my years in China. It turns out that if I want to have a multiple-entry visa, I must pay for the balance (sevral hundred yuan). But anyway, the job is mine, and I am interested in it.
By the way, I walked out of a 8000 a month job, teaching 20 periods a week. However, that school paid hourly wages, not a monthly salary, and these varied enormously from month to month. Need I add that they were unable to obtain for me a regular work visa? ANd, yes, iot was a public (provincial) college!

[London_guy]

Thank you all so much for the replies. They are very informative and interesting. I now feel encouraged to apply for university jobs (perhaps with a business element involved in the teaching). However, I have a couple of further questions.

On a salary of, say, 3000RMB can a teacher live comfortably in, say, Shanghai? Also can a teacher take on private lessons to earn extra money? I have a few Chinese friends that say foreign teachers can get 100-200RMB per hour teaching one-to-one private lessons.

Also, do you know how much money a teacher can send home each month? I have heard there are limits about how much RMB can leave China.

Sorry if this post is very money orientated, I just have to understand the practicalities. That is, I still have repayments on a student loan that I would have to keep paying!

Thanks again for all your help.
London_guy

[sojourner]

London Guy,

3000 RMB per month,with a Master's degree ? Don't sell yourself short ! In Shanghai, you should get CONSIDERABLY MORE than that. I should point out that the cost of living is much higher there than in most other parts of China - no,3000 per month is certainly not enough.However,if you are offered a reasonable monthly salary, make yourself familiar with the other provisions of the contract.For example,if you are offered what APPEARS to be a generous salary,will you also be provided with a furnished flat ? If so,will you be provided with a PC (with Internet access),expected to pay for utilities,etc.One worrying trend that I've noticed recently is that many employers appear to be offering one-way (only) ticket reimbursement for those who sign a 1 year contract.So,a generous salary may not be so "generous" after all,when you take into consideration other factors relating to the contract.

3000 per month for Shanghai - there is absolutely NO WAY that I would accept such an offer ! The salaries at my college in Jiangxi Province (probably the poorest province in SE China) are far more generous,by comparison.eg,from the 1st Term 2004,I have been informed that teachers with Masters degrees will probably be commencing on about 4,500 - which isn't too bad,considering that the cost of living here is v.low.(If you are interested in a job here,please send me a PM as soon as possible.)

Re,converting your RMB into foreign currency - can be a real headache.Involves a lot of paper work,etc.Most contracts usually specify the %age you are permitted to convert to US$,or whatever.At my College,it is 50% At others,it is 70%.I don't know why there is such a disparity - after all,Central Bank foreign exchange regulations apply for the Entire country;or do they ? Really weird.So,if a contract specifies 50%,ask the college/uni to amend it to at least 70% - I can't image why they should be reluctant to do so,if it's within the Central Bank foreign exchange limits.If you are unable to change your salary and other earnings into foreign exchange,there is always the "grey market" - some element of risk.Or,you can take your RMB to HK,on the way home,and convert it into HK$ there.Until recently,I believe that 6000 was the limit that you could take out of China - I think that it's more now.Does anyone else know ?

Regards,

Peter

[Roger]

Hello, London_guy,
I don't take such a dim view of earning 3000 even in Shanghai provided my employer lives up to the national stipulations that make it incumbent upon him to house me, provide meals at subsidised cost or free, offer access to the Internet and so on. I am aware of how much more onerous life in Shanghai is, but I also know that 3000 can be saved almost entirely if you forgo bar crawls and dining out regularly. Most language school teachers have to pay for their housing by themselves. In this respect, Shanghai is becoming like any city in the West. That means hunting for your accom, paying through your nose, depositing one or two months' of rental as surety, and potentially settling for a mediocre unit in a suburban, grey setting, with long commutes thrown in for good measure.
Accepting a low-paying uni job will no doubt leave you the option to freelance for the amounts you mentioned yourself. Beware of competition, though: I am certain it's fierce in Shanghai, owing to many undocumented aliens living and freelancing there.
Even medium-sized towns such as Shenzhen are fast filling up with II's. I heard the other day, hourly rates are sometimes as low as RMB 70 an hour. Sorry, but I wouldn't want to waste my time for such low rates, with so much instability in my job. Go for a public school.
Just make sure you don't have a clause in your contract, expressly forbidding you from working part-time outside the school.
My contract does not have this otherwise common stipulation!

[struelle]

[Wolf]

In terms of salry and conditions, China can vary wildly. In my neck of the woods 3500 a month is a good salry for a university. It's rare to find more than that. The most I've heard of is 4800 and everyone agrees that place is really "shelling it out."

That's the interior.

The areas in China that are comparatively rolling in it often offer more - or will offer more if you negotiate.

[Freaky Deaky]

[Jen2003]

[Minhang Oz]

Firstly, London Guy, I agree you'd be selling yourself way short if you took the sort of salary you mentioned.
As for Shanghai, you can spend as much as you want to here....or have a pretty reasonable time for not much more than in any other Chinese city. It doesn't need to be expensive, and call me Scrooge McDuck, but my beer tastes better in a decent little local restaurant rather than a smoky [ok, so's the restaurant!] fake Irish bar at 15 times the price.

ps Remember what happened to Gatsby. Tom and Daisy live on though.

[Freaky Deaky]

^ As a fellow lover of the amber nectar - You can go to a restaurant and a bottle of Suntory or the dreaded Budweiser might cost around 5 rmb. Go to most bars on the Mao and you'll pay 30 - 40 rmb. Go to one of those hideous fake Oirish pubs and a pint of Guinness will cost 65 rmb. Back home I'd pay the equivalent of 28 rmb for Guinness.

Or eating out. There's a place opposite my house where I can get rice, some veggie dishes and a meat dish for 9 rmb. Or you can go to Xintiandi and spend 1,200 rmb for two. You get the picture?

Shanghai can be dirt cheap if you live like a local, but you ain't no local. I reckon the very least you need per month would be 12,000rmb. And even then you might not be saving anything for holidays, special occassions, etc.