Job Discussion Forums

[Zero]

How much money per month do you think is needed in China to support a laowai and family -- say, a wife and two tiny kids? In Beijing, Shanghai or in smaller cities.
Any ideas?
Also, if the main salary wouldn't do it, how hard would it be to supplement that work with side work?

[brsmith15]

Big Cities? 10,000 RMB minimum. Can both of you work?

[Zero]

Does anyone have more thoughts on this?

[Eyrick3]

I'm going to say that a "smaller" city would run about like this:

1500 - 2000 RMB a month in rent for a 100+ sq m apartment (3 bedroom) (this also depends on location)
3000 - 4000 RMB a month in food (for 4 - 5 people)

The food would actually be much lower than this if you cooked at home for every meal, probably by half.

Keep in mind that there are families in China, much bigger families, living on much less. I assume you'll want some of the same creature comforts as you would have back home, so getting a bigger place and eating more (varied) food will cost a little more.

[waxwing]

How tiny is tiny? Do they need schooling? Will they need it soon?
This will be as much of an issue as anything else.
Not having children myself I wouldn't know the details but this has got to be the number one issue.
Would even remotely Chinese childcare, nannying or schooling be acceptable? (I'm talking mainly about the language issue here...)

If you need childcare catering specifically for expats, costs suddenly shoot way up.

[eslstudies]

If you've got housing and utilities supplied, and you're content with the "local" lifestyle [eating out etc], as opposed to the expat........
with a wife and young son, we managed comfortably on 4,000 a month in outer Shanghai a few years back. I think some people would need much more though. Having a street smart Chinese spouse certainly made things more economical than they would have been otherwise. So on 1.5 salaries, together with some side work for me, we were saving a minimum 10,000 a month.

[Mister Al]

10K a month (net plus housing) in a bigger city would be quite liveable but not much in the way of savings. In a smaller city with less western type temptations you would live very well, I would think

[vikuk]

With children - I'd only take a job that provided decent kitchen facilities - a good gas cooker and microwave. At least that way you had more idea what you were putting into your kids mouths - but even then you can't keep out all the pesticides/herbicides/growth hormone/food additive and heavy-metal water pollutants that are part and parcel of Chinese life!!!

[Buck Lin]

I cut my expenses in half and maybe more since marriage to a Chinese .

[anguyen]

So far I haven't seen anyone mention IS tuition for these children. I wouldn't worry about the day to day living expenses, there are always ways to cut back, but I would worry about education. Of course, you could always homeschool your kids if you feel confident in your abilities, but I know that mine for one would get pretty lonely, although you have two and you said they are small so they may not need it for a year or two. I've looked at several sites and seen tuition at international schools ranging from $8,000-$12,000 US/ year. Usually due up front or in up to 3 payments. There may be interviews required, enterance exams, and other application and/or registration fees involved. The schools themselves offer a fantastic education and have beautiful facilities, but are costly on a teacher's budget. If you work there your child is usually comped in. But, the application process is lengthy and I have a hunch these teachers are working the same long hours I am at home and am trying to get away from.

However, a Chinese friend of mine who worked at a University in Xian called a friend and said that my son (1st grade next year and he knows some Mandarin) would be welcome at the Chinese owned school linked to the University there if I taught at the University. Has anyone heard of this before? What are these schools usually like?

[Zero]

My kids are infants, but when it's time for school, I think I'd send them to a Chinese public or private school, not an international school. I know some people have strong thoughts that that is a bad idea, but if it were one of the better schools, I think it might be OK?

[eslstudies]

[vikuk]

[danswayne]

Without the local hukou for your kids you will be paying to the tune of 12,000 RMB for primary school, of course that only equals 2,000 a year, but it still is not free or almost free like it is for the local Chinese. Our son goes to a good KG he is 4, and we pay about 1,000 for that. We don't pay the 2,000 - 4,000 for the International system Chinese Kindies because I think my English speaking level is at least good enough for our 2 children at home. I live in a small city of 5 - 6,000,000 depending on the day you count so I would be happy to answer any questions I might be able to help with.

[Mister Al]

My wee girl has been going to a local You Er Yuan (kindy) for nearly 2 years, she's almost 4 now. About RMB10K a year. 9am-5pm, M-F. She loves it. Her Mandarin is obviously much better than her English at this point in time but even that's ok as we try to speak to her in English at home as much as possible. I would not consider sending her to a local Chinese primary school as it simply is a miserable/regimented experience for them and a crap way to educate children. An 8 year old girl who lives next to us get out to play for an hour on a Saturday. The rest of the time she goes to school, eats, sleeps and does mountains of homework. Poor kid.
We will probably go back to UK next year or the year after so our girl can get taught in English and at least be encouraged to be creative etc. Not that happy about going back but we will give it a go. I suppose at a push we could afford to send her to International school here but at 10-15 times the cost of the kindy that would mean no savings every month and maybe even a bit of cutting back. Maybe I should buy a few lottery tickets.