Job Discussion Forums

[naturegirl321]

Do you get documented proof of past jobs? I was advised by a teacher that because people lie a lot on their CV, the best thing to do is get documented proof from your old employers that you work as such and such a place, for X amount of time.

Do any of you do this? Is it worth the effort, have employers ever asked you for proof of past employment?

[ls650]

Absolutely; my school's manager and I have already agreed that before my contract ends I'll get a written letter of reference.

[Gordon]

If you feel your employer is too busy or lacks the English ability, ask them if they'd mind you writing it for them. Then they can just read it and sign it. Don't overdo the glowing reference letter though.

[Lynn]

I never thought about this...I'm interested in what the others will post. I've never done this before. I wonder if it's really worth it. Right now I work for 3 different schools in the states. Should I just ask them to write a letter saying Lynn worked here from Jan. 2003 to Feb. 2004? I don't think they'll take the time to write anything more, like about my teaching ability or methodology.

[dyak]

[dmb]

Make sure you get an email address before you leave. Best not to use hotmail or yahoo addresses as they could be your best mate fibbing.

[denise]

I've been asked to send "certified proof of employment," or some such thing. The way that it was worded, I got the impression that the school to which I was applying only needed written verification, not a recommendation, so all I asked for from my old school was written verification of the dates. I never did hear back from the place I applied to, though...

Regarding writing your own recommendation letters--I am horrible at selling myself--all shy and modest and whatnot--so I had my ex-boyfriend help me out (I did not trust my DOS at the time, a native English speaker, to write anything halfway coherent!). My ex went kinda overboard with the glowing praise. I was uneasy, but I printed out the letter as it was and got it signed. I have never used it. It's just a bit too over the top.

d

[Just a guy]

Such N. Such was employed at This n That School from These n Those times.
During said times, Such�s scheduled classroom attendance was excellent, they attended many of the extracurricular activities asked of them, was involved with the school choir & joined in most of the English Corners at our school.
The student assessments of Such are very high & there was a noticeable improvement in their spoken English.
The permanent teaching staff enjoyed sharing teaching methods & classes with Such & they became good friends.

Our school is very happy to of had Such here & would gladly hire them again in the future, they will be missed by many here.

Mr. So N. So
Headmaster of
This N. That School
That There city, Country
555-1213
������������..

KISS

Get a local teacher to translate it for you in their language if possible on the same paper before you have the person in charge sign & stamp it.

`of course, replace the names with real ones & them / they with him / her�.

[Roger]

That's where release letters come into the picture! If you have a number of those to cover the period under review, then you should have no problem.
I am currently being considered by an university. They were very polite and very pleased with me, which was reciprocal. Then I was introduced to the head of the relevant department, one professor such and such. He seemd to be favourably impressed by me. We went over my track record, all detailed in my CV and substantiated by 2 letters of recommendation.
A few days later the request: Could I supply the address, telephone no. and the name of the principal of my last employer?

Since it was me that walked out on the other party towrads the end of last term, I am not looking forward to being lauded by the principal there although she had renewed the contract with me, the year before.

[joe-joe]

I would always recommend getting a letter of reference from employers because it provides a concrete piece of evidence of your work experience. The importance of this becomes when you consider that management staff in schools change, schools go out of business and what is written on your reference is there for you to see, whereas e-mailed references could contain God knows what.

[shmooj]

It may be best then, if you take joe-joes advice, not to have a date on that letter when it is written and to keep it nice and pristine so that you aren't submitting something that looks as if it has been dragged through a hedge backwards.

As someone who has had to do application processes for staff though, I can assure you, I want to phone up and speak to someone or email them questions to reply to. A nice letter of recommendation that the candidate produces will not do for me. Anyone could have written it.

If your employer is willing to take the latter, they may not be worth working for anyway. Just MHO of course

[Snoopy]

Check out the postings on the "CV Lies" board from Biffinbridge and myself.

I have no compunctions about writing my own stuff and printing it out on official stationery. It was a prudent precaution when I left KSA, and even a nasty Arab boss recognizes good work. The moment you leave his office to get to your class on time, he tries to blight the rest of your career.

Be as sneaky, duplicitous and self-serving as you can get away with. Actually, I'm writing to myself here, as I'm about to do it again.

[joe-joe]

If you do get a letter of reference of course you should have the date written on it, it's a pretty daft suggestion to say it's not (IMHO....). It serves as proof of past experience, but not necessarily the most recent, and any school worth its salt would of course check an applicant's references directly, but sometimes school where you apply want not just your most recent reference, but the previous 2 or 3. And in my experience sometimes references aren't available because school's do go out of business. Also some visa applications actually demand you have such letters of reference available.

[veiledsentiments]

People seem to be confusing two different things here. Personally I had never heard of 'Proof of Employment' papers when I went overseas. They are not something ever used or required by US employers. (they also do not normally accept Letters of Recommendation from the applicant as they know that they are usually bumpf - they want them mailed from the referent or preferably, they call them.)

It was after I reached the Middle East that the employers requested 'Proofs or Letters of Employment' from all previous employers plus 2 or 3 'Letters of Reference.' They were quite surprised to hear that such proofs were not used in the US and that getting them would be nigh onto impossible once one was already overseas. For instance, at Kuwait University, you get a step in salary for every year of experience, but they only count those years for which you provide 'Proof of Employment.' So, if you have taught for 10 years, but have no original papers to show them, you will have just cut your salary significantly. Not all Middle East institutions have this sytem, but for those that do, this is crucial.

The Proof of Employment normally gives only the facts, dates of employment, courses or types of courses taught, salary, completion of contract terms. The details of your charming personality and momentous teaching ability are left to the Letters of Reference.

Thus, those of you who think that you may want to go to teach in the Middle East at some time, be sure to get 'Proof of Employment' letters from your employers and keep them with your original education papers - Degrees and Certificates.

VS

[Stephen Jones]

I assist in recruitment in another institution in the ME and again, we have steps on a salary scale according to your previous years of accredited experience (the same is true in most schools and universities in the UK also, but they have other ways of checking this up).

Now when you get the job offer it is based on somebody having calculated your salary based on those years of experience so you are expected to be able to provide some kind of documentary evidence so that person can justify the decision.

Now in the West it used to be more normal to get testimonials, or even nothing at all, but in the Middle East they will normally never give a testimonial, but simply a letter stating the period of time you worked in the company.

Note that these letters are different from testimonials, which may be asked for anyway. Try and get the basic facts of employment period and ask for a testimonial separately. That way if you don't like the testimonial somebody gave you, you can get somebody else to do one (perfectly ethical as long as he gives his correct title and position) and still have a bona fide record of employment.