Job Discussion Forums

wainwright · Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Posts: 7

I've been reading a lot of negative views of teaching the military in Saudi. Is there anyone actually doing this who could tell me how terrible it is? What is the worst I could expect? And the best? Is the money the only good thing to be said about it?

Thanks.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Negative ?
Terrible ?

I think probably much worse. Why do it ?

johnslat · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:20 am Post subject:

Dear wainwright,
While teaching the military in the Kingdom is generally regarded as less than desirable, a lot depends on two things: you and who you teach for.

Full disclosure: I never taught the military.

However, lots of my colleagues did and are teaching them now. From what they've said Raytheon in Jeddah isn't too bad and I have a friend now at Vinnell in Riyadh who actually likes it there.

So, it all depends - as usual.

Regards,
John

mouse5 · Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 142

sheikh radlinrol · Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 1222 Location: Spain

I have taught military personnel in KSA. It was soul-destroyingly boring. BUT I found my charges to be generally polite, friendly and good company. Obviously, this is one man's experience and others may not agree.
One of my bosses was a retired British Army colonel and he told me that while KSA was light years behind Europe in most respects, they were miles ahead of us Brits when it came to social skills.

Neil McBeath · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 277 Location: Saudi Arabia

I taught Royal Saudi Air Force Cadets in Dammam for two years, working for BAE Systems.

Prior to that, I had been a uniformed Education Officer in the Royal Air Force of Oman for twenty four and a half years.

The Saudi cadets were nothing like so good as the Omanis. That having been said, the disparity was not the fault of the cadets themselves.

In Saudi Arabia, it would appear that recruitment goes throuigh three phases.

Firstly, the Armed Forces call for volunteers, and choose the men they actually want - simultaneously compiling a reserve list. Then they wait for places to become available, budget allocations etc. In the meantime, the best of the future recruits often wander off and get jobs or places on other training courses.

As a result, when the recruits are called for, not many of the A List candidates are left. So the forces take them, and people from the B List.

At the same time, individuals whose families have influence appear at the recruiting offices with letters saying "His Highness Prince X says you are to accept this man..." Some of these recruits are, in fact, very good people, but not all of them....

These disparate groups are then put through "Basic Training" - which means no more than learning to march and salute. No weapons training is given, and there is NO emphasis on self discipline.

After that, they start to learn English, but in RSAF, all the cadets are kept in a state of advanced sleep-deprivation. They are trying to get by on about 5 hours of sleep a night, over a period of 18 months. They are taught seven lessons of English a day, with the result that they are, in some instances, bored stiff/completely lost/ incapable of absorbing new material at that intensity.

Despite this, some of the cadets I taught were absolute charmers. They would have been a credit to any service, and I remember them with both affection and respect. Others were obnoxious brutes, but again, the RSAF policy was to give them enough rope and let them hang themselves. The problem with this approach was that teachers at the lower levels had to put up with them until RSAF realised that these men were never, ever, going to be acceptable airmen.

Many of the people who complain about teaching the military have (A) never done it; (B) listened only to the bad side and happily embroidered reality (X was KICKED by a recruit - actually a recruit stood on X's foot by accident, turned round and apologised); (C) don't like woring in Saudi Arabia or working with SAudi Arabians. These people would probably be equally unsatisfactory if they were teaching anywhere else.

freeboy · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 4

I was wondering if anyone can provide me with some of the names of high-paying institutions in the KSA. A friend of a friend went to KSA this year and I heard that he was making really good money. As far as I can tell he works in Dhammam. What institutions in Dhammam pay very well? Please at least the institution names. Thanks in advance.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Very well ? None! Reasonably ? IPA and Dammam Community College. The usual spelling in English is D A M M A M

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject:

My TCW. I taught Saudi military for nigh-on 10 years and it was GD-boring stuff...using DLI Audio-Lingual mats and sleepy students. The REALLY GOOD contracts have gone on, but there's still some good
money to be made at a few military contractors like Raytheon and BAe Systems.

As a recent parolee, I'd suggest to anyone to upgrade their creds and avoid that country. If you're looking for some easy money and are lazy in your attempts to improve you skills, then Saudi's the way to go. If you're for real, get on to another country that pays even more. In all due respect to JonhSlat (who never knew that I knew him in Riyadh), the I.P.A. is a fine place to work and requires nothing short of an M.A.

If you're a rookie..go to T.I.N.S. in the Eastern Province.

Again, my TCW.

NCTBA

freeboy · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 4

I actually hold an MA from the US and 3 years of experience (2 years in the USA and 1 year in the Middle East). I don't care if the students are sleepy. What I want is to make as much money as possible during the time I am in the Middle East. My current salary is around 5,000 USD plus all the perks such as annual air tickets, accommodation and health care. Am I too optimistic about finding jobs that pay better in KSA? By the way I am not a US nor UK nor Canadian nor any of the Western country citizen. Please advice. Thanks for your time...Many thanks to NCTBA...

Sadebugo · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 524

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:50 am Post subject:

Hi, freeboy!
I make more than that (including the benes that you mentioned) and that's without living in the Magic (See? Even I can get it right after a while!) Kingdom, but in a neighboring country. As I said in my earlier post...all the real good jobs (I'm a former Boeing sub-contractor who used to work the Peace Sentinel [AWACS] program(me) at RAB have quite gone away. I've done the Raytheon thing, too. If yer single and you want to make money, that's really the only REAL money-maker outside of the Yamama Programme (BAe Systems) that's really left in the Kingdom. I could be overlooking a few, but I doubt it.

Being non-Western shouldn't be an issue, but it frequently is. I currently work with an Indian who's a supervisor...but from my experience, he's an exception to the rule...giving my system more and more credibility in my mind every day. Your experience, albeit on the thinner side, should give you a hard look at. Think tertiary institutions just outside of Saudi, but within an oil-producing Gulf state.

NCTBA

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

BAe or Raytheon. If you have a non-Western passport your chances are slim.

freeboy · Joined: 02 Jul 2008 Posts: 4

Thank you very much for your invaluable advice and tips scot47 and NCTBA.

Mark100 · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 441

Teaching military in Saudi is an interesting experience and all depends on a number of factors.

I was very lucky in Saudi i taught very little average less than 8 hours a week and only about 7 months of the year.

I would have struggled if i had the low level classes that my colleagues had.

All my friends at BAE in Easter Province survived but a lot of them were high school teachers before and were used to juvenile behaviour.

BAE is well worth the effort considering that if you can survive you can set yourself up for life with their generous salary packages.

BAE also has some very cushy gigs if you lucky enough like materials development and computer lab etc.

Get those gigs and you are really laughing.

Having said all of that Saudi is not for everyone and indeed probably only a small percentage of people that go there can handle it for any length of time.

Personally i wouldn't go there if i was under 40...better options elsewhere.

If you are over 40 Saudi has many benefits.