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jamesmollo
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 276
Location: jilin china
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 Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: changing jobs |
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Hi all, just want to hear your thoughts on my current situation.
I resigned from my job and got the release letter and have an r.p.f till june next year. They have my f.e.c which will be cancelled, but I don't think this is a problem as the f.e.c is used to obtain the r.p.f.
I will remain in the same city and have job offers here.
The problem is the new school is not sure if they can get me a new visa. Now, I'm well aware of the corruption and how these things work.
My question is: has anyone obtained a work visa themselves? through connections and bribes? ideally i'd like to work for myself, freelance.
thanks |
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suanlatudousi
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
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Your Resident Permit is assigned to you based on your employer.
If you have quit, have the release letter, and get a new job, you must apply for a new FEC as well as Resident Permit. You will be asked to supply a letter in Chinese (and possibly in English) indicating your were "happily" released from your job, in that you didn't commit any violations and they are agreeing to let you go AND obtain new employment.
Legally (not that that means much), you are now living in China illegally. Your Resident Permit is assigned via your employer. Technically, you should go to the Police Department and have your Visa/Resident Permit canceled and either leave China or be given a Visitor visa. Then, you will have to obtain all new documents per your new employer. I'd recommend following the process. If you wait too long and then go to get a new set of credentials, they may not like to see that you quit/were fired some number of weeks ago. |
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brsmith15
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 1142
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| And......remember there can be a fine of 500 RMB a day (5,000 max) for living illegally if caught. |
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cj750nomad
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Beijing and
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I resigned from my job and got the release letter and have an r.p.f till june next year. |
| Quote: |
| Legally (not that that means much), you are now living in China illegally. Your Resident Permit is assigned via your employer. Technically, you should go to the Police Department and have your Visa/Resident Permit canceled and either leave China or be given a Visitor visa. |
i wouldn't be so quick to tag this action as illegal ... if the current RP is not revoked ....(an action that would require the passport to be surrendered to the PSB) ..... it is still in effect...if the recent pst employer hs not requested the passport.. and even if they do .. I wouldn't be so quick to give it to them... but too bad u didn't keep the old FEC as it could be used to transfer the FEC to a new school...
but all of this is not addressing ur question .. the F visa may be the only way to self determine ....unless u want to go to all the trouble to create a HK Corp. .... the A.Workers permit was an option at onetime .. but requirements may have tighten up on this as well...
but the real question is WHY cannot the new school gain access to the proper paperwork... |
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ralph wiggim
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 95
Location: Somewhere between Itchy and Scratchy...
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| if the current RP is not revoked |
This is the key. You need to have your new employer go to the psb station and have the visa/rp transferred over to them as the employer. Doing this keeps it valid.
Not doing this well, if the original employer had it canceled them you have issues with China.
Get on them to do it and quickly. |
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North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: See Below |
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| suanlatudousi wrote: |
Your Resident Permit is assigned to you based on your employer.
If you have quit, have the release letter, and get a new job, you must apply for a new FEC as well as Resident Permit. You will be asked to supply a letter in Chinese (and possibly in English) indicating your were "happily" released from your job, in that you didn't commit any violations and they are agreeing to let you go AND obtain new employment.
Legally (not that that means much), you are now living in China illegally. Your Resident Permit is assigned via your employer. Technically, you should go to the Police Department and have your Visa/Resident Permit canceled and either leave China or be given a Visitor visa. Then, you will have to obtain all new documents per your new employer. I'd recommend following the process. If you wait too long and then go to get a new set of credentials, they may not like to see that you quit/were fired some number of weeks ago. |
I want only to deal with the legalities of this issue and will not touch parts of the question that you have raised.
Your release letter need NOT say what the previous poster has stated. That is truly spurious. It need say nothing more than "on such-and-such-a-date "X" was released from by contract of employment by "Y". It should carry the stamp of the school and it should be in both Chinese and in English with stamps on both. The English version should be stamped.
It will be required by both the Foreign Experts' Bureau and the PSB -- the FEB to issue you a new FEC and the PSB to handle your paperwork. You should only have a Letter of Recommendation for the FEB -- they will ask for one. If your current employer cannot provide one, or will not provide, then the rules and regulations provide that you may obtain one from a previous employer in China for a position occupied within "x" amount of years (I think maybe two).
You will need a valid medical. Depending upon the province, some medicals remain valid for one year. In other provinces, they remain valid for only six months.
If your new school is "legit", if they truly have the authorization to hire foreigners, and if you have the stamped Letter of Release and Letter of Recommendation, they should be easily able to handle your new papers in the same city.
The PSB usually refrains from getting involved in disputes between foreign teachers and employers. These are civil, and not criminal , matters. The Foreign Experts' Bureau, however, is where things can get "dicey". If your previous school kept a "dossier" on you and on all of your pecadillos, and if they can get the FEB to buy their written "version" (not just a mere telephone call unless the Director of the FEB happens to be either the best friend of, or a close relative thereto of the school's director in which case spoken sleaze will suffice), then the FEB just might, and I say, just might refuse you. Again, that is not guaranteed.
Next, yes, the visa is drawn against the employer. That being said, under Chinese law, you have 30-days to obtain other gainful employment with a subsequent change of resident permit before things can start to go wrong. However, under the rules, should matters become complicated, and it not be possible for you to obtain an arrangement or settlement of the differences within thirty days, then then PSB, may at its sole discretion, grant you an additional fifteen days-to-one-month to settle your affairs. After that, if things are not settled, there is a good chance that you will receive the 10-day notice stamp in your passport.
I just hope that the differences don't revolve around in a net increase of money in this sense : the new school will pay you much more money than the previous school so you decided to leave. That is one reason that the FEB's frown on for sure.
Hope this has been detailed enough and helpful.
Last edited by North China Laowei on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cj750nomad
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Beijing and
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Your release letter need NOT say what the previous poster has stated. That is truly spurious. It need say nothing more than "on such-and-such-a-date "X" was released from by contract of employment by "Y". It should carry the stamp of the school and it should be in both Chinese and in English with stamps on both. The English version should be stamped. |
I might add that some places are now requiring a form .. in lieu of the aforementioned letter...
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| I just hope that the differences don't revolve money in this sense |
Did I miss the part where the op mentioned "differences"
this is the breakdown as I have read it..
| Quote: |
1. I resigned from my job and got the release letter and have an r.p.f till june next year.
2. They have my f.e.c
3. The problem is the new school is not sure if they can get me a new visa.
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and the request for aid was driven by this question....
| Quote: |
| My question is: has anyone obtained a work visa themselves? through connections and bribes? ideally i'd like to work for myself, freelance. |
Now without supposing the questions not asked.. I think an F visa is the best bet for self determination. |
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eddy-cool
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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You do not have much time to sort out your situation as your Resident's Permit will be deemed illegal if you stay on without working for your erstwhile employer. I've heard time and again that one month after you quit your job your R.P. will also become invalid.
This will probably bite the minute your new employer is presenting your documents for approval with a view of hiring you. The police will then probably decide you had been staying as a tourist, and your F.E.C. and other documents will no longer be accepted. That's at least a possible scenario.
You will then probably have to leave Mainland China and return with a new work visa. Remember, that too is valid for 30 days... |
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North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: See Below |
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| eddy-cool wrote: |
You do not have much time to sort out your situation as your Resident's Permit will be deemed illegal if you stay on without working for your erstwhile employer. I've heard time and again that one month after you quit your job your R.P. will also become invalid.
This will probably bite the minute your new employer is presenting your documents for approval with a view of hiring you. The police will then probably decide you had been staying as a tourist, and your F.E.C. and other documents will no longer be accepted. That's at least a possible scenario.
You will then probably have to leave Mainland China and return with a new work visa. Remember, that too is valid for 30 days... |
Eddy-Cool,
You are very much on the mark with your answer, particulary if the OP is in Guangzhou these days. There they are applying the letter of the law, or the letter of the rule. Elsewhere, it remains still somewhat flexible. Just to reiterate what I said and forgive the repetition:
1. There is a thirty-day period in which to obtain gainful employment and to hand in the papers to the PSB.
2. If these thirty days cannot be met, the PSB, can, at its administrative discretion, extend the period, usually for not more than an extra thirty days.
But the OP should remember that this is China and what is valid in one locale is hardly valid in another. It can change within the same prefecture, even.
All the best,
NCL |
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jamesmollo
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 276
Location: jilin china
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: changing jobs |
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Thank you for your replies.
Yes, I have the release letter in chinese and english with stamp. The reason I quit was over hours and classes promised not a money issue.
There is, however, a propaganda letter (which I have seen) apparantley written by me, signed by me, and stamped by the school. I have requested this letter when I leave their apartment. The letter says I left because of complaints by students, parents and co-workers. This letter could be, and possibly already has gotten into the hands of the f.e.b
But, the paperwork and documents were witnessed by me and my girlfriend - in fact, the before mentioned slanderous document was, in the f.a.o's words - B.S and said in her presence.
I do not agree with what has been said about the r.p.f it can only be cancelled with passport in hand. The 30 days is when your r.pf runs out and you have 30 days to renew it. The correct procedure is to hand in your passport to the local p.s.b at which time it is changed to a tourist visa, valid for 30 days. In which time you can go to hong kong and get a z-visa sponsored by a school then return and have it changed (again) into a r.p.f
If I don't hand in my passport, what can they do?
Bear in mind this too, most of the p.s.b that might bother me don't know the ins and outs of this. If they want to see my passport - well it has a residence stamp in it.
worse comes to worse they can be paid anyway.
My question was: has anyone obtained a visa by themselves? |
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jamesmollo
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 276
Location: jilin china
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: changing jobs |
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| Oh and 'NCL' yes I have the medical in chinese and english and letters of reference in chinese from other employers |
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ralph wiggim
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 95
Location: Somewhere between Itchy and Scratchy...
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| If I don't hand in my passport, what can they do? |
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| I do not agree with what has been said about the r.p.f it can only be cancelled with passport in hand |
The Chinese, while backward in some ways, do have computers. A bunch of computers linked together is called a network. The department that handles visas and immigration into and out of China is advanced enough to be on one of these netwroks.
The weakest link in this chain is you...
Here's how it works - Your school says you left the school. They tell this to the PSB. The PSB in their computer notes that you are no longer working for the school that sponsored your visa. They, IN THIER COMPUTER void your visa. Now you become an illegal alien. In the USA not a problem, Wal Mart welcomes you to work there as do hundreds of other employers.
But this is China.
To start off you have very few legal rights in this country.
Now you have even less.
To answer your question as quoted above - they can do whatever they want. AND, they will. And the second quote is extreamly wrong.
From this point on your stubborness can only lead to costing you much money and grief. |
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North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: Re: changing jobs |
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| jamesmollo wrote: |
Thank you for your replies.
Yes, I have the release letter in chinese and english with stamp. The reason I quit was over hours and classes promised not a money issue.
There is, however, a propaganda letter (which I have seen) apparantley written by me, signed by me, and stamped by the school. I have requested this letter when I leave their apartment. The letter says I left because of complaints by students, parents and co-workers. This letter could be, and possibly already has gotten into the hands of the f.e.b
But, the paperwork and documents were witnessed by me and my girlfriend - in fact, the before mentioned slanderous document was, in the f.a.o's words - B.S and said in her presence.
I do not agree with what has been said about the r.p.f it can only be cancelled with passport in hand. The 30 days is when your r.pf runs out and you have 30 days to renew it. The correct procedure is to hand in your passport to the local p.s.b at which time it is changed to a tourist visa, valid for 30 days. In which time you can go to hong kong and get a z-visa sponsored by a school then return and have it changed (again) into a r.p.f
If I don't hand in my passport, what can they do?
Bear in mind this too, most of the p.s.b that might bother me don't know the ins and outs of this. If they want to see my passport - well it has a residence stamp in it.
worse comes to worse they can be paid anyway.
My question was: has anyone obtained a visa by themselves? |
With all due respect to Ralph, and perhaps others, I have been in China for soon six years.
The ONE and ONLY time that I have seen a residence permit actually cancelled was when the person(s)-in-question actually handed his-or-her passport over to the local FAO under extreme duress. The person was then given ten-days to leave the country. But -- and I want to reiterate this -- the case-in-question had strong political overtone (meaning one person had touched on the third rail about as much as you can touch on it).
Your case is far, far, far removed from that. |
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jamesmollo
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 276
Location: jilin china
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: chnaging jobs |
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Thanks for your comments, ralph.
but, you are wrong. Thanks for the insight though - 'a network' ground breaking stuff
cheers |
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jamesmollo
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 276
Location: jilin china
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: changing jobs |
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wall mart, huh. do you have any contacts there?
informed and intelligent replies only thanks |
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