Job Discussion Forums

[throwdownyourcrutches]

http://www.thenews.com.mx/home/tnhome.asp?cve_home=1046

[thelmadatter]

I would love to think that Mexico is getting serious about foreign language education, but the cynical side of me is wondering just how much of this is the usual hot air.

Ive heard that countries like Chile have mandated English instruction from primary for all their kids with at least some sucess. If that is true, Mexico sure doesnt have any excuse.

[Guy Courchesne]

The Fox government mandated a similar program as far back as 2002...seems either nothing came of it or the states didn't implement the program, or the feds never freed up the funds to get it off the ground.

Speaking of other Latin American countries, Panama has already gone so far as to mandate Mandarin for mandatory study in all grades (along with English). Mexico is a long way from that level of foresight.

[lexpat]

[MikeySaid]

I get the sense that people studying Chinese now may have missed the boat in terms of opportunity. Those who started showing up in China in the last decade or two were able to do some real profiting. Projections are for Brazil, Russia, India and China to continue to gain a lot of ground and everyone always talks about learning Mandarin because there's so many speakers.

English, Spanish, French and Portuguese still give you much better access to the world. I can't imagine that Chinese will become the business language of the world, perhaps of the far east, but unless they start taking over countries I think business calls from Germany to Mexico will continue to take place in German, Spanish or English.

For those of us living in Mexico and perhaps planning a long term presence in this country... is there a possibility that Mandarin begins to edge out English?

[thelmadatter]

English is the global lingua franca not because of the number of speakers but rather because it is so spread out.

Thank the worldwide nature of the British Empire for that. Without it, English would definitely not have the status it has today... no matter what power the U.S. has today. US global standing has only reinforced and sustained English's status.

I always find it amusing with people, especially academics keep predicting English's demise on the world stage at one point or another. The Mandarin aspect gets played, but there are several problems with this one. The number of speakers is inflated. As much as the Chinese govt wants one language over its billion people, what we call Mandarin is really more fragmented than it looks and not really all that mutually intelligible. The Chinese character system has been indispensible in part because it allows every to read the same "language" even if they dont really speak it. Although China was a huge political and cultural force shaping Asia before the 20th century and wants that position back (after all it is the "Middle Kingdom"), it never really supplanted languages in areas outside its political control and has never had colonies or conquered lands that were discontinuous with itself. Hence "Chinese" is the language of "China" and nowhere else.

A seemingly more plausible prediction for the demise of English as we know it on the international stage comes with the theory of "regional Englishes" such as "Hinglish" "Chinglish" "Spanglish" etc. The most often cited one is Hinglish as it has had the longest time to develop. The thought here is that these regional variations will supplant native-speaker English (be it North American English or British English) in their respective regions. There are problems with this idea. The main one, and probably the only one needed, is that we live in a globalized world and need a global language to communicate. Replacing English with mutually unintelligible regional variants basically destroys English's usefulness. I do not doubt Hinglish's existance as a regional lingual franca but that is because it function in a country that needs a regional lingua franca and this variety of English developed under circumstances in which languages are adopted... conquest and occupation. Chinglish and Spanglish will probably never develop to the point that Hinglish has. So called Chinglish is really just a conglomeration of the common mistakes people in this region make. Spanglish may evolved into something distinct but this is unlikely as it is restricted only to Hispanic communities, serves no function as a lingua franca and younger generations tend to forego it for more standardized versions of English in the U.S. Those with good English levels here in Mexico seem to only mix in the occasional English word... not qualifying such a new language or pidgeon.

Frankly, those who make this assertion are really victims of their own wishful thinking due to anti-Americanism.

The fact of the matter is that the world needs a common way to communicate and English is the best to serve that role.

One change that I do think will happen is a kind of International English... a variant of English that is frozen from textbooks but mutually intelligible to native speakers of English. This happens now. After all, the English I teach my students is NOT the English I speak with native-speaker friends and family. Nor should it be. My students do not learn English so that they can be like me (why would they want to be like me?) but rather to communicate outside their own culture/language. If the world is doing the same, then we either learn a whole bunch of different cultures or we "sterilize" the communication method as best we can so that it is easier to learn. Pidginize it, so to speak. In this way, everyone can at least sort of understand everyone else.

This is what happened with Latin. For centuries, it existed as a language without a culture behind it (hence called a dead language) for use in certain circumstances. English wont completely become a dead language because it is the native language of many cultures, not just of one like Latin was. But the international variant will be "dead" or "near-dead" so to speak.... unless of course Lord Obama brings peace and justice to the world and we all become one world community.... (sorry couldnt resist)

[Guy Courchesne]

[TheLongWayHome]

[geaaronson]

Not only spread out but the four of the major economic players in the globalization arena are English speaking nations, with a few secondary players such as Ghana, Nigeria, and Australia. For each of the other major players their native tongues are restricted within the confines of their boundaries with the exception of Spanish and French and neither carries the economic weight of the English world.
And it�s Lord, your holiness, OBAMA for your information. You need to get the title right.

[thelmadatter]

Guy... I dont understand where in my posting you got that I thought Panama was anti-American for teaching Mandarin. I think its absolutely fine... they are thinking of economic possibilities outside those of North America... something Mexico needs to do. I wonder if the canal has anything to do with their decsion to teach Mandarin. Would surprise me to learn that a LOT of Chinese ships pass through it.

gearronson.... dang near shot Coke (the brown fizzy kind!) when I read your last line

I reposted the link to this article on Mexico English Teachers Alliance and Frank seems to have a different take. He seems optimistic about it this time round

http://metamexico.ning.com/forum/topics/how-serious-do-you-think-they

[raulyn]

[geaaronson]

Thelma, shucks, I would have liked to seen the beverage all over your new couch.
And benaroundtheblock just questioned our judgment in putting American political squabbles online! Got both of you going! Como emociante!!!

[thelmadatter]

Tell Ben that is not political squabbling... that is just good-natured ribbing. How many Democrats/Republicans do you know who can do that without it devolving into something nasty?

[leslie]

Bye

[TheLongWayHome]