Job Discussion Forums

[matt045]

First, let me thank everyone for such a great forum- I have been lurking for a while.... I am a retired Fireman and am interested in teaching english in China. I have an AA degree and will get a 120 hour Tesol. What is my job outlook in China. Any idea of what kind of wage should I expect for the above qualifications. I am more interested in the culture than the money, but don't want to experience bad working and living conditions if I can avoid it, so any advice from folks with experience are most welcome and appreciated. This is my first post here, so I hope I am asking in the right forum. Thanks, Matt

[North China Laowei]

Dear Matt,

First, there will be a lot of doomsayers around here that tell you that it is not doable, etc., etc.

I am not one of them. True, an AA degree if not a BA and true you will be able to teach at any of the Ivy League universities in the country (and I am not sure that you would even want to).

But with a TESOL certificate and an AA degree you will still be able to find gainful employment. This is China and as for salaries -- well, it will be a big roll-of-the-dice. You will be offered anything and everything from rock bottom to a quite decent salary.

What struck me is the fireman background. In your shoes, I would probably apply to some of the military universities around the country -- they actually do hire foreign teachers -- and I would definitely look at the police colleges, etc., etc., plus the vocational colleges that train these kind of students here in the PRC. Additionally, you may wish to try some of the sports universities around the country. Do not feel that you are confined to language mills and the like.

There are some provinces where a lack of a BA is less of a hindrance than in other provinces. You may wish to consider Heilongjiang, although it is quite cold, or Jiangsu, with its distinct four-season climate, or even various locales in Sichuan, or the provinces surrounding Beijing. You will find things a bit tougher in Guangdong these days (they seem to be clamping down) but it is still doable.

You need to "hang out your shingle" so to speak on some of the job sites and see what comes in.

All the best,


NCL

[matt045]

Hi NCL,
Thank you for your reply. How does on go about applying at military or police/fire schools. Is that something that I need to be in country to do? Is it better to go to China and then find employment, or is it better to find a job before I go? I have seen the "laowei" word before- what does it refer to? Do you recommend taking my Tesol course in China, instead of the US? I appreciate your informative response. Best regards, Matt

[chinglishman]

I doubt whether the Chinese schools can tell the difference between an AA and a BA.

[Hansen]

Matt, It is tough to be dogmatic about situations in China. There are some provinces in China, such as Henan, that have a policy of not allowing people without at least a bachelor's degree teach in a university of any kind. I have been told this on two or three separate occasions by people in or associated with the office that issues Foreign Expert Certificates.

Their may be exceptions, even in Henan. Another thing to consider is that even the schools that do hire you will not respect your educational attainments. A bachelor's degree is fairly standard in China as a status symbol, even though you may be unemployable and living at home with Mom and Dad. In other words, many consider a loafing card player with a bachelor's degree superior to an honest worker without one.

Military universities definitely do not hire FTs in any capacity in this province, according to Chinese teachers who work in them.

While some posters here may be excited by the prospect of a mustached, muscular man, in workboots, don't bet that employers will. If you are retired, age may be an issue. Some provinces are enforcing age limits and not hiring, or requiring to leave, individuals over 60 or 65 years of age, depending on with whom you talk. Recently, I was told by someone in the FAO office that the age is now 60. Again, this may not be evenly enforced and may vary form province to province.

Of course, there are dodgy operators who will forge documents, lie, and manipulate in order to benefit themselves by your presence. This occurs at even some of the better schools, not just the mobster oriented language mills.

You should qualify for high school positions with an AA and TESOL but you are going to seriously limit your options. When someone with a bachelor's comes along, you could be out the door. You can expect lower salary as well.

If you've not a lot to lose, have a try, but don't expect too much. If things work out great, you won't be disappointed.

[killian]

if you aren't fit, get there. good looking people get paid better. get fit, send your photo with every document/resume/ application.

[matt045]

Thank you all for your ideas and advice. I am 50, extremely fit and easy on the eye. I am single and unencumbered, and would like to experience China. I am interested in doing this for the cultural experience, to meet people, and to be productive at the same time. I don't need the best job, but I don't want to get shafted my first time out, either. Can someone tell me if it is better to get employment once in China, or secure it beforehand. How do you know what the facilities are like and living quarters, or do you only sign a contract upon arrival and inspection? I appreciate everyone for taking the time to help. Also, I am an avid cyclist- is riding bikes in China a death wish, or is it reasonably safe- how about mountain biking? Don't want to travel clear across the world to get flattened by a bus! Best, Matt

[Voldermort]

If you have the funds I would recomend first coming as a tourist. Scout out the city and schools before signing the contract. But saying this, you have to bare in mind the you would most likely have to go to Hong Kong to get the correct working visa.

In most larger cities, the locals prefer to cycle arround rather than take the public transport. Most roads have wide cycle lanes. I like cycling myself, but being a Welshie I much prefer the mountains.

[therock]

[roadwalker]

I second the idea, in your case, of coming over as a tourist first, especially if you have never been to China. Maybe a vacation would sour you on teaching here, or increase your interest. Can you afford a long holiday? It is easy to travel relatively cheap, compared to the west.

As for a Tefl certificate, I would do it in the US. If you want to get it in China, it would be better if you got one with a well-known 'brand' such as a Trinity affiliated Tesol or a Cambridge Celta. If it's in China, try to verify that it really is affiliated with the program it claims. At any rate, get one with classroom time and a teaching module. I would also study some rudimentary Chinese at the same time. You won't get fluent quickly but some polite words can go a long way.

If you haven't started now, with a tefl, I don't think that you are going to make the start of the next term which should be about mid-February. That's assuming a 120 hour program which takes about a month. Nevertheless, public schools may still be trying to fill vacancies and private language schools may have openings any time of year.

As for getting a bad deal, don't feel pressured to sign right away, especially if your detectors are going off. Post questions here about specific offers and there's a chance that someone knows the school or has an opinion about the offer. Good luck