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akmassager
Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 38
Location: Juneau, Alaska
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 Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: Teach in China or Taiwan? HELP! |
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Ok, this is my situation: I am a 45 year old male massage therapist in the states. It looks like my ten year run as an MT is coming to a close due to the economy. I have taught ESL(with no training, just through contacts) in Argentina two years ago and have resisted teaching. But now with this economy, I am thinking of TESL in China or Taiwan for a year then, coming back to the states and getting my Master's in Education. I should add that my BA is NOT in education.
OK, here are a few questions:
1. Does it matter what time of the year it is to start a teaching assignment in China or Taiwan?
2. Will I get discriminated against because of age?
3. Will I be able to save as much in China vs. Taiwan?
4. Better working conditions in China or Taiwan?
5. Is it worth taking a ESL class online, or is it a waste of time?
6. Can you pick up work on the side in either Taiwan or China?
Thanks for your help,
Akmassager |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Does it matter what time of the year it is to start a teaching assignment in China or Taiwan? |
Most schools in Taiwan hire after the Chinese New Year and for September 1. You can probably find a job just about anytime since some teachers do runners.
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| Will I get discriminated against because of age? |
Sometimes. I have only worked a summer in China but due to the demand of English teachers I think you will find a job either way. Look for university jobs or high school work but I am not an expert on China. I have lived in South Korea and Taiwan. Most likely I will go home after this or stay in Taiwan. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Can you pick up work on the side in either Taiwan or China? |
Side work can be found through agents or by posting your desired hours on tealit.com. Side work is not legal but it seems that the Taiwanese government only raids kindergartens. I don't think they are too interested about illegal teachers in language schools. |
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dangerousapple
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Side work is not legal but it seems that the Taiwanese government only raids kindergartens. I don't think they are too interested about illegal teachers in language schools. |
Not true, actually. The labor bureau goon for my neighborhood goes to all the schools in the area twice a year and asks everyone to pull out their ARCs. He then asks me to rat out schools in the area that I know have illegals!
He is always unhappy with me because:
1. I have an open work permit...
and
2. I am the boss, I run a legal school, and all my teachers are legit...
and
3. Because of #1 and #2 I tell him every time he comes in how rude and disrespectful he is, because he really is a big SOB. Definitely not the response he expects or is used to, that's for sure.
Anyway, watch out, because buxibans do get raided. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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dangerousapple,
He is probably not happy to you because you are not paying him a bribe.
Furthermore some of the schools that have illegal teachers know when he comes. They pay him for sure. |
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dangerousapple
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Bribes? It's not like that anymore.
The last time I was asked for a bribe was 1999.
Bribes haven't been a big part of anything for about 5 years now. In 2003-2004 there was a huge crackdown on corrupt inspectors and a lot of them went to jail or got fined. Most inspectors for fire, public safety, and the labor bureau now are terrified to ask for bribes because there is a good mechanism in place to report those who ask for them. It just ain't happening anymore. In fact, when I opened my first school, the company that I contracted with to help out with the business license told me not to bother offering bribes, because it's not common practice anymore.
However, I am in Kaohsiung City, which is quite different from the counties. The laws are more relaxed out there, and I'm sure there are still shenanigans going on.
Trust me, it is way harder now to open a school than it was even 5 years ago, because the rules are much more stringently enforced.
That's why there seem to be a lot of dishonest buxiban owners out there...it's harder for them to cheat the government, so they are trying harder to cheat the staff.
That's my insider's take, anyway. Think of it what you will. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Bribes? It's not like that anymore. |
Ha, then how do you explain that all of those English pre-schools are still open all over Taipei even though foreigners are not suppose to be working in them. I believe technically even people with a visa through marriage should not be working in them either. |
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dangerousapple
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not bribes, it's manipulation of the law. We all know how it's the interpretation of the law, not the law itself, that governs how things get done. The kindergartens are very good at making themselves legal without resorting to bribes. |
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akmassager
Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 38
Location: Juneau, Alaska
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: thanks, plus |
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Thanks for your input. BTW, what's a runner?
Do schools in Taiwan care about certification are will a ba satisfy them? Any schools you can reccommend teaching for? Any to avoid? |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It's not bribes, it's manipulation of the law. We all know how it's the interpretation of the law, not the law itself, that governs how things get done. The kindergartens are very good at making themselves legal without resorting to bribes. |
That is not a manipulation of the law. If a foreigner is caught in the classroom with pre-school children he or she would likely be deported. Being a teaching assistant does not make it legal if that is what you are getting at.
Also I am not legal expert but I believe it is illegal for any Taiwanese without the proper degree to work in a pre-school as well. |
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dangerousapple
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: |
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No, I'm not talking about foreigners getting caught, I'm talking about the schools themselves. The schools do whatever they can so that they can offer ARC positions. Those that cannot offer ARCs hire part timers or illegals. When the schools get raided those "teachers" are on their own in a heartbeat. The school pays its fine, the "teacher" gets deported, and its business as usual.
So to the OP, in Taiwan, stay away from any school that doesn't offer a work permit, and stay away from any school that has kids less than 6 years old. |
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yamahuh
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Karaoke Hell
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Teach in China or Taiwan? HELP! |
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| akmassager wrote: |
OK, here are a few questions:
1. Does it matter what time of the year it is to start a teaching assignment in China or Taiwan?
Not really, in Taiwan with your education you will be probably working for language schools who tend to hire all year round with little dependency on school terms. In China you may end up in the public school system but could just as easily find something in a 'cram school'.
2. Will I get discriminated against because of age?
China- No
Taiwan - Yes, and this is because your employers will be looking for younger candidates who they think are more 'energetic' and able to keep up to the demands of teaching young children.
3. Will I be able to save as much in China vs. Taiwan?
No
4. Better working conditions in China or Taiwan?
This depends entirely on your perspective.
Less hours - China
More money- Taiwan
Getting taken out by school staff and treated to great lunches, dinners and generally being trreated like a king - China
Being left alone to do your own thing - Taiwan
More vacations - China (public school system)
More interesting historical sights and culture - China i.m.o
Western conveniences and less culture shock - Taiwan
5. Is it worth taking a ESL class online, or is it a waste of time?
I would say definitely worth it, every employer I've ever had in China or Taiwan has asked for it although technically with a B.A you don't need it to get your work permit and ARC in Taiwan. It can't hurt right?
6. Can you pick up work on the side in either Taiwan or China?
Yes and Yes
Thanks for your help,
Akmassager |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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No, I'm not talking about foreigners getting caught, I'm talking about the schools themselves. The schools do whatever they can so that they can offer ARC positions. Those that cannot offer ARCs hire part timers or illegals. When the schools get raided those "teachers" are on their own in a heartbeat. The school pays its fine, the "teacher" gets deported, and its business as usual. |
I am not sure that is really manipulation of the law but for all newbies that is why you rarely find a door that opens by itself in a pre-school. They need to have time to warn the teachers to hide if the police come.
Of course the better schools have their kindergarten and pre-school program in ajacent buildings. When the police come foriegners just need to go into the buxiban and all is good. Interestingly enough my school has the buxiban upstairs with a pre-school under. Two seperate addresses that are connected underneath. Easy for teachers to get back to the buxiban when needed. |
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dangerousapple
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| There ya go. |
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yamahuh
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Karaoke Hell
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| dangerousapple wrote: |
| It's not bribes, it's manipulation of the law. We all know how it's the interpretation of the law, not the law itself, that governs how things get done. The kindergartens are very good at making themselves legal without resorting to bribes. |
Exactly, the owner of my school here in Chiayi County is the head of the Kindergarten association of Taiwan. If anyone should know about the legalities of hiring foreigners to teach Kindy it should be him right?
And yet somehow we are all teaching Kindy classes...
Where there's a will there's a way... |
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