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roywebcafe
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 259
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 Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: Will Excel tesol Diploma in China |
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Has anyone heard about WillExcel Tesol they promise to pay students to do a Tesol Diploma, provide free mandarin training and accomodation. It sounds very good and you do get 500 hours teaching practise over six months. The content looks professional to.
I want to know if anyone has done it and what they thought of it and how widely is it accepted outside of China. Also would schools and colleges expecting a British council accreditation accept this. the content and instruction looks better than a CELTA or Trinity
the link is www.willexcel.com/TESOL/main.htm |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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That's not 500 hours teaching practice; that's 500 hours work.
The contract is for a job. You work 500 hours in 6 months (=20 hrs/wk), the company underpay you and throw in a free apartment (almost all Chinese jobs offer a free apartment), free mandarin lessons (worthless) and a nonsense 'diploma'. |
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Eyrick3
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 161
Location: Beijing, China
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: |
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I took the course back in 2006. I've talked at length about these guys in previous posts.
I really do believe their the best available out there. I did an Oxford Seminar before hooking up with Will-Excel, and the Will-Excel guys were 1000% better--they actually cared about me developing as a teacher, which is a huge testament to their program.
| Quote: |
| That's not 500 hours teaching practice; that's 500 hours work. |
It's 500 hours of evaluated teaching. The Institute provides your sponsor school with evaluation forms for your students. At the end of each month, they tally these scores and comments and send it to you in a report. This way, you always know how your students and managers feel you're developing as a teacher. Sure, some other schools might do this, but I guarantee they're not as thorough.
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| The contract is for a job. |
The contract is for much more than a job. You're totally taken care of during the first month of training and given a job:
Free, furnished apartment, free lunch and dinner, over 10 hours of introductory Mandarin lessons, Pimsleur 1 Mandarin + NPCR Volume 1, 120-hour TESOL course, plus a job that you get to choose paying AT LEAST 4000 RMB a month.
How many other TESOL courses give you that much? Most others let you sit in on the TESOL lectures and that's it. They could care less about your accommodation, ability to communicate with the locals, or even finding a job.
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| the company underpay you and throw in a free apartment |
Note that the 4000 RMB salary is the base, which is higher than many universities. I've heard from some of their teachers (I've signed up as a reference for them) who are making more than that with some sponsor schools. One sponsor school offers up to 5500 RMB after 3 months if you pick up 2 extra hours of teaching (this is on their site).
To the original poster: these guys are great. You'd be doing yourself a big favor by going with them. |
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roywebcafe
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: Will excel |
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If its 20+ teaching hours per week there can't be much time for training? China is along way to go to find out if something isn't what it seems.
| Eyrick3 wrote: |
I took the course back in 2006. I've talked at length about these guys in previous posts.
I really do believe their the best available out there. I did an Oxford Seminar before hooking up with Will-Excel, and the Will-Excel guys were 1000% better--they actually cared about me developing as a teacher, which is a huge testament to their program.
| Quote: |
| That's not 500 hours teaching practice; that's 500 hours work. |
It's 500 hours of evaluated teaching. The Institute provides your sponsor school with evaluation forms for your students. At the end of each month, they tally these scores and comments and send it to you in a report. This way, you always know how your students and managers feel you're developing as a teacher. Sure, some other schools might do this, but I guarantee they're not as thorough.
| Quote: |
| The contract is for a job. |
The contract is for much more than a job. You're totally taken care of during the first month of training and given a job:
Free, furnished apartment, free lunch and dinner, over 10 hours of introductory Mandarin lessons, Pimsleur 1 Mandarin + NPCR Volume 1, 120-hour TESOL course, plus a job that you get to choose paying AT LEAST 4000 RMB a month.
How many other TESOL courses give you that much? Most others let you sit in on the TESOL lectures and that's it. They could care less about your accommodation, ability to communicate with the locals, or even finding a job.
| Quote: |
| the company underpay you and throw in a free apartment |
Note that the 4000 RMB salary is the base, which is higher than many universities. I've heard from some of their teachers (I've signed up as a reference for them) who are making more than that with some sponsor schools. One sponsor school offers up to 5500 RMB after 3 months if you pick up 2 extra hours of teaching (this is on their site).
To the original poster: these guys are great. You'd be doing yourself a big favor by going with them. |
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Eyrick3
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 161
Location: Beijing, China
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Read the website:
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| After trainees complete their first month of training, they begin their 6-month teaching term at their sponsor school. Details regarding your specific Sponsor School are given to you when you are offered a position in our program. |
http://www.willexcel.com/TESOL/English/About%20Us.htm
There's one month of training to start, then you start your teaching term. Throughout the teaching term you receive feedback on your classes (which I mentioned above). There's also a monthly assignment and feedback session.
There are testimonials on their site, there are also other posters on this site if you search for the school. Run a search for Will-Excel and you'll find feedback from other teachers too. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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In summary:
It isn't 500 hours of teaching practice; it's 500 hrs of teaching.
4000 RMB is not a great salary.
That your students get to 'evaluate' you doesn't make it training or teaching practice.
Free accomodation while working is standard,
Free lunch and dinner is not unusual and in any case is worth about 5 yuan/day.
Value of free mandarin lessons, little but not nothing
But it is reported that the course is better than the one offered by Oxford seminars. |
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StephenAlexander
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,
I took this course last year and found it very helpful. I also had a prior TEFL cert from TEFL International. The Excel course was much more informative and interactive.
Before I left my home for the course I was given the choice of 2 sponsor schools--both had salaries above the guaranteed 4000 (one at around 4100 and the other at 5200). I chose the job with the lower pay as they offered lower hours.
The Chinese lesson during the first month of training were great. They were professional and structured very well. We had lots of feedback on pronunciation, pinyin, etc. The sponsor school Chinese lessons were just okay, but were certainly still a high value as it's nice to have a friendly face help you learn something as difficult as Mandarin language!
I'd be willing to talk further with anyone about this course! |
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Eyrick3
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 161
Location: Beijing, China
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I took this course last year and found it very helpful. |
Nice to see a fellow graduate on the boards here!
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| 4000 RMB is not a great salary. |
4000 is the base salary. You can see on their website examples of schools that offer more than that. Stephen also said he got two offers for salary higher than the guaranteed base.
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| That your students get to 'evaluate' you doesn't make it training or teaching practice. |
Would you rather start teaching without any training or feedback whatsoever? With this program, you get organized and constructive feedback at least once a month.
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| Free lunch and dinner is not unusual and in any case is worth about 5 yuan/day. |
Again, would you rather have to fend for yourself in a new country with a new language? These guys take care of you while you're adjusting, something other programs don't do at all.
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| Value of free mandarin lessons, little but not nothing |
You get out of it what you put in it. Sure, if you have no priority to study then you won't make progress. But if you have a goals and a plan, and follow that plan, you'll get results.
stillnosheep, the overall tone of your "summary" makes it seem that all the extras of this program are worthless, and that's simply not the case. Many people interested in becoming teachers would love to have the support that the Will-Excel guys offer. |
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Lhenderson
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 135
Location: Shanghai JuLu Road
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Profesisonally, its useless.
Might help you learn and get some practice, but you could do that other ways. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:23 am Post subject: |
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The course content and support offered by WillExcel may very well be excellent; it certainly seems to be held in very high regard by past students.
Nevertheless in response to the OP's questions:
1) How widely is the course recognised internationally?
2) How valuable are free accomodation, free meals and free mandarin lesson?
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3) What about the 500 hours "observed teaching practice"?
1) It isn't.
2) Not at all, not very, and it depends on the student
&
3) There are no 500 hrs observed teaching practice; there are 500 teaching hours with student feedback. |
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Lhenderson
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 135
Location: Shanghai JuLu Road
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Itz not recognised.
I won't hire you. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Does that diploma come with a big - Will Excel - logo 
Ain't anyone told the school it could be a good idea to swap that name with something a little less corny - after all that - Will Excel - sounds like a school straight out of a looney-tune cartoon  |
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StephenAlexander
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 1) How widely is the course recognised internationally? - 1) It isn't. |
And who are you to determine that every school on the face of the planet won't except their diploma? I've worked in China with this diploma, and now heading to Japan to start work in February. That's at least two countries where employment can be found with this diploma.
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| 2) How valuable are free accomodation, free meals and free mandarin lesson? - 2) Not at all, not very, and it depends on the student |
What?!?! Free accommodation, free meals and free Chinese lessons are worthless? Nothing personal, but I feel this single response completely discredits you as anyone who could possibly give good advice on anything on these forums.
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| 3) What about the 500 hours "observed teaching practice"? - 3) There are no 500 hrs observed teaching practice; there are 500 teaching hours with student feedback. |
It's 500 hours of teaching practice for which you receive student evaluations. This is absolutely key in understanding how you stand as a teacher with your students and how you can improve. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| StephenAlexander wrote: |
And who are you to determine that every school on the face of the planet won't except their diploma? |
Dear Stephen, The question was not "Is there a school on the face of this planet that recognises this diploma?" (answer: yes) but "How internationally recognised is this diploma?" (answer: it isn't)
| StephenAlexander wrote: |
| I've worked in China with this diploma, and now heading to Japan to start work in February. |
Congratulations.
| StephenAlexander wrote: |
| That's at least two countries where employment can be found with their diploma. |
No, that's exactly two countries where employment can often be found with or without any diploma.
| StephenAlexander wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 2) How valuable are free accomodation, free meals and free mandarin lesson? - 2) Not at all, not very, and it depends on the student |
What?!?! Free accommodation, free meals and free Chinese lessons are worthless? |
No. Please learn to read more carefully: The offer of free accomodation while working adds no value to the course as all low-paying Chinese teaching posts offer free accommodation; the offer of free meals is worth very little as the free meals are worth very little; the value of the offer of free Mandarin lessons depends on the student.
Which is exactly what I wrote.
| StephenAlexander wrote: |
| Nothing personal, but I feel this single response completely discredits you as anyone who could possibly give good advice on anything on these forums. |
Nothing personal but perhaps you should dry off behind your ears, earn an internationally recognised qualification and get some time as a teacher under your belt first before setting yourself up as some kind of metacritic.
| StephenAlexander wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 3) What about the 500 hours "observed teaching practice"? - 3) There are no 500 hrs observed teaching practice; there are 500 teaching hours with student feedback. |
It's 500 hours of teaching practice for which you receive student evaluations. This is absolutely key in understanding how you stand as a teacher with your students and how you can improve. |
Thanks for the lesson. As I said: "[t]here are no 500 hrs observed teaching practice; there are 500 teaching hours with student feedback." By the time you have been teaching for a few years you will probably have developed a slightly more sophisticated understanding of the complex world of teacher evaluation and structured feedback.
I'm glad that you found your course with the funny name rewarding.
Good luck in Japan. I'm sure that the Japanese will love you. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:51 am Post subject: |
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Personally I found all of StillSheeps points so valid that I didn't bother adding anything, but I will add this
Student evaluation??? Even suggesting student evaluation in CHina to be a valid criteria for judging teaching performance is a mistake in my book. I take teaching seriously, but the students say what they are trained by the school leadership to say.
I for on would beinterested in some examples of useful student feedback. That's not sarcastic, but genuine. What are some examples of student feedback? |
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