Job Discussion Forums

[Jaime1]

I teach in Korea in a hagwan and these kids are some of the most disrespectful little ____s around. I thought asian culture was all about respect and respect towards elders - not so if you're a foreigner. Is this a Korea thing or does it also happen in Japan ? or Thailand too?

Any help or insight is good.

Like on a scale of 1-10 (1 being ___ and 10 being a saint) How would you rate them.

[JL]

I get the impression from reading these threads, that things have gotten slightly worse from when I tought Japanese kids/teenagers in the classroom... eons ago. But I also got the impression that two major points remain the same:

1) It depends on the level of the school (ie. higher level schools with more competitive entrance req.'s will have less disruptive students. And more of them will actually look forward to learning some English (though studying for exam hell is still their priority). 2) With the more delinquent filled classes, your own attitude will go a long way. Be a force of nature and be in charge of your classroom (even if you're having to team-teach). Constantly be moving among the students, let your voice boom. Stand over the students who are would-be disruptors, engage them in a half-intimidating, half-cajoling manner. Most of them are the way they are because they don't giva **** about English, and/or don't believe they can do it. So spoon feed them if you must, then praise them in front of their peers if they make an effort. Then move on. This still won't fix them all. But it actually goes quite a way.

[Glenski]

A hogwan is the equivalent to a Japanese eikaiwa. Parents pay for the kids to attend, whether the kids like it or not. What age are you talking about, anyway?

I have taught high school students in a private school, not eikaiwa, and since there was no entrance exam to the sister college where most of them went, they had little motivation to study English (or anything else). Not much in the way of discipline problems, but if you really want or need to discipline kids, you're going to have to know enough of the language for them to take you seriously.

If you can't manage that barrier, stick to a friendly atmosphere and hope for the best. Take something away that they like if discipline problems arise. For example, "ok, no game/activity that you like today just because Takashi won't stop talking for the 3rd time." They usually get the message. Screaming and storming about accomplishes nothing.

Put yourself in their places. Forced to learn a language they often feel they will never use and can't by the time they graduate. Being taught by their Japanese teachers the ungodly grammar translation and dissection of sentences just to pass college entrance exams, instead of learning to say more than "I'm fine thank you. And you?"

[JL]

"Screaming and storming about accomplishes nothing."
I'd have to say that's probably true for any culture.

"Forced to learn a language they often feel they will never use and can't by the time they graduate."
That, too, is an issue which transcends cultures, as well as generations. A lot of students (and parents) think that way here in the US. Whether it's about learning English as their own language, or math, or anything else. But for the teacher, it still pays to be proactive, and assertive -almost aggressive- with kids who would rather screw around in class. You can use the stick, like Glenski suggests. And I would too, at times. But first try assertively engaging them, and rewarding them if they go along. One of two things will happen: 1) it'll work. 2)It won't work. But, believe it or not, the kids will, at least, be less of a disruptive problem for you. I remember having insolent students, and students who would act up, because they didn't care about English and really didn't want to be there. But I got them to realize, since they had to be there anyway, participating actually made the time go by a lot quicker than acting up or screwing around with their friends did.

As Glenski also points out, this is harder to do if you don't speak Japanese. But I didn't speak Japanese when I first started out. You can still get this across. Like I said above, just be "a force of nature" when you're in the classroom. It's YOUR classroom while your in there. Make 'em live it and love it!

[tobiascurious]

right, so in an eikaiwa how many kids do you teach at one time and of what ages?! not sure I could cope with a big class

[reasonJP]

[JL]

Well, I'll defer to my colleagues who are currently teaching, because I've been out of the loop for a while (though I'll be rejoining everyone this spring). However, back in the previous century, anywhere from three to for students, up to about a dozen, for most classes. Any less, the school can't make money on standard tuition. Any more, and parents complain. I must say, I've taught kids from pre-school age on up. The ones taking English language lessons at a language school -even when forced to attend by their parents- weren't the worst. Those ones were in the lower-level public schools. I can, of course, recall some brats. But the ones jumping out of classroom windows, bullying the class misfit, throwing stuff --they were in the public schools. Anyway, you just take the bull by the horns.

Oh, what ages? All ages. At the young end, it depends on your school's policy. It used to be rare that kid's under six were accepted; they weren't deemed ready to grasp studying another language. But since I've been away, I've noticed that small children have become a BIG part of the business. I think they start 'em real early now. From four, or so? I'll let others with more current info. weigh in on this. And I'm curious what others think of this trend.

[Hawaiibadboy]

Kids will always try and find out just how much a teacher will take. I think that's universal.

I have zero tolerance for bullshit so I get zero bullshit

Another soft teacher with the same kids may not be so lucky.

[JL]

"I have zero tolerance for bullshit so I get zero bullshit.
Another soft teacher with the same kids may not be so lucky."
Thaaat's the ticket! And in the end, the kids like a class more where the teacher is clearly in charge, than a class that has broken down.

[Glenski]

[JL]

Wow, Glenski. A thorough analysis of virtually everything I wrote.
Just a few quick hits:
"Stick" referred to "take something away that they like." Wasn't implying you meant to "hurt them." That was Hawaiibadboy! (Just joking, Hawaii. )
"This is not the case for foreign languages in the USA."
I think you misread me there, my friend. Yes, FL in the US would be an elective, thus self-selecting students "presumably" more motivated. What I said about the US was, "learning English as their own language, or math, or anything else..." --the compulsory curriculum. As I'm sure you know, there are plenty of kids in the US who are wasting their free education, and disrupting the education of their classmates in the process.

As for all the other stuff addressing how practical or doable all this is when the students resist --all I can say is the teacher's attitude and approach is HUGE. I taught in some pretty rough schools (for Japan) in my day. Between forty-four and forty-eight to a class --all boys, virtually all with no hope of college, or of entering a desirable company. Some of them were street thugs always only a step away from dropping out. I won't bore you guys with all the details. But you can win over the delinquents with far more success than you'd expect. I've been there. Same with the "furyo" girls. For the stubborn few --well, we can't change the world, of course. But put your best foot forward. Some of the most rewarding times I've ever had was teaching in two of these schools.
Okay. I'm off my soapbox.

[JL]

Poor Jaime1. You've probably got your head spinning by now. If you stick with private language schools, you'll be avoiding much of the above.
Just how to "teach" babies that are "0" years old, though... THAT part blows my mind.

[markle]

I haven't worked in Korea but in my experience if you find kids disrespectful brats one place you'll find them the same everywhere. I've taught here and in Thailand and had the best and worse in both places.

[reasonJP]

[Glenski]

JL,
Looks like we cleared up everything except one. Since when was education free in the USA?