Job Discussion Forums

[englishmaster]

I am an American English prof with a Ph. D. who taught at a couple of Chinese unis over 10 years ago. Right now, I am considering going back.
I'd like to know what the situations are like at Chinese unis these days. I am looking for a medium-sized uni in a medium-sized town, and am also thinking of getting a position where I could stay for a number of years.

Can anyone describe the scene to me? What could I expect in terms of pay, accommodation, treatment, etc.? What are the students like? What is the atmosphere in China like now? Is it much affected by the economic crisis?

Thanks.

[cps82856]

Here are a couple of sites I recently discovered that may help you.

Middle Kingdom Life: Perspectives on Living & Teaching in China

http://middlekingdomlife.com/wp/

Middle Kingdom Life Foreign Teachers' Guide to Living and Teaching in China

http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/index.htm

[toteach]

I was in Jiangsu for a year back in 1999/2000. Things have changed in that western goods are readily available and much less expensive than they were then... Ground beef and cheese are the same as in the US, fresh milk is slightly more. A bowl of noodles on the street is around 5 RMB, and busses are 1-2 RMB.

As far as the uni scene: Private vs. Public Universities. MAKE SURE that you know which is hiring you. I've taught at both, and by far the better students were at public universities. Public schools often pay better, though. Make sure you know what students you're hiring on to teach. Are they future English teachers or science majors? Are they in a mandatory 1st year class, or are you teaching electives?

Both will provide free housing: one bedroom, a kitchen, bathroom (western toilet, not like 10 years ago!), and a sitting room. If you intend to bring a significant other/family, negotiate larger housing, as typically it's unsuitable for more than one person. If you're going to sign a longer contract, negotiate for larger housing. You might be expected to pay for utilities. Negotiate for a computer and internet to be provioded. Negotiate for office space, whether it be an extra room in your house or elsewhere. (The last thing you want to do is spread out on your kitchen table at grading time).

Negotiate. Negotiate. Negotiate. They'll try and get you for the least amount they think you'll accept. A public school will offer you 4000 RMB, but they might go up to 5500. A private school will offer you 6500, but they'll go nearly double. All will expect 20 teaching periods unless you negotiate down or opt to teach specialized courses.

All will pay round-trip air for a one-year contract, but some will do it each semester. All will offer free Mandarin classes. Some will offer foreign teacher outings. All will offer travel allowance (RMB 2000+) in addition to reimbursment of airfare.

China is interesting, the students are varied, and administration is sub-par everywhere. Not much different than 10 years ago!

[eddy-cool]

I am working at a PRIVATE institution but it is my firm belief they are treating staff better than public ones usually do. Students too are of a better calibre. Obviously you cannot generalise. However, public universities have no incentive to improve their teaching quality, or how they treat their employees. Nor do they have to be picky about who they admit as students - the demand for study places is relentless. It seems that the one however vaguely relevant criterion that decides on how good a school is might be the school's location relative to a population centre; the quality of the treatment you get seems to grow in tamdem with the distance to the city centre.

[Eyrick3]

I'm more interested in hearing how teaching at universities a decade ago was.

Sure, some students at universities today are greatful to have a foreign teacher teaching them, and they take advantage of that in class. However, on the whole I find university students apathetic, disinterested and unmotivated.

I'd say maybe I'm just a crap teacher, but my colleagues in the past have held similar views on Chinese university students.

[cps82856]

One of the reasons I like the websites I mentioned above is that they have crystalized in words the vague feelings I've been having the past couple of years. Here's what I've finally come to realize for myself this last semester.

[sui jin]

Couple of things to add. You PhD should get you an extra 500 or 1000 RMB per month salary at a public university. Make sure you negotiate for a round trip air ticket for a year's contract, as some schools seem now to limit the air ticket refund to an amount which may not cover the true cost.
For me accommodation and internet access to the 'outside world' are very important, so check what is being offered.
Standard teaching hours in a public university seem to be 18 (here my teaching hour is 45 mins). So a free weekday is possible depending on the schedule.
I teach at a lower rank, 4-year University. Maybe this means the students here are grateful to have a University education in the first place, because they are certainly not apathetic nor indifferent. A few students have a poor attitude to study (mainly the rich kids paying extra for special courses). The kindness and friendliness of regular students is one of the main benefits for me teaching here. Another is the low cost of living, still. Finally, at least here in the northern reaches of Jiangsu Province, the world economic crisis hasn't yet started to bite.

[Hansen]

Age may be an issue. Some provinces are refusing to issue credentials to people over 60, although I have seen some mighty ancient looking sixty year olds.

[arioch36]

Eryk

[Neilhrd]

I have been in Nanning since the summer of 2004 and I have taught at all levels from primary grade 1 to university. What amazes me is how little really has changed. Yes there are more skyscrapers and a lot more cars in the city. But the general standard of English among students has not improved at all. If anything it is getting worse. That is an appalling inditment of the system bearing in mind how much time, money and effort has been put into learning English. But it is a reality. More importantly the government, Chinese teachers, parents and rich students continue to delude themselves about the true standard of English here. The testing system hasn't improved at all and corruption as well as sheer ignorance of testing methodology remain the norm. This means that if you teach English in a Chinese university today 90% of your students will probably be studying at the wrong level. That can be frustrating for teachers and goes a long way to explain the apathy which so many teachers report.

I am fortunate enough to have some very capable Chinese colleagues but that is the exception rather than the rule. The general standard of management skills in education, and business in general, in this city is zero. One word of advice. Don't work for a new school or department unless you want to spend your first year teaching a bunch of amateurs the A,B,C of running a school. Look for somewhere that is well established and previous foreign teachers have ironed out some of the wrinkles.

For me pay and conditions have improved significantly over the years and I have no complaints. I can afford a nice lifestyle here and have no desire to return to Britain. However conditions vary widely and horror stories abound. Be very careful who you are dealing with and double check everything.

[Hansen]

If you are a truly qualified English professor, you might want to consider opening a training center, an environment which you can control. There is a market for real training schools which produce demonstrable results. My guess is that you would be appalled at what passes for education here.

Figure out where you want to live, find some Chinese people you can trust [virtually impossible] and open a training center. You could start looking at the English corner for potential partners. As long as you don't invest any of your own money, have a partner that can negotiate with the local authorities, and produce good English scholars, you'll do well.

[therock]

[englishmaster]

Thanks for the answers, you guys. You confirm what I already knew or suspected. Actually, I have a former student checking out job opportunities for me, so he can weed out the bad ones.

When I was in China back in the 90s, I taught at a couple of key unis, and the students, especially the graduates, were decent quality, although of course I had the usual problems getting them to talk. I taught literature and composition courses, at which they did rather better. It was an interesting time, but problematic.

I was in China in 2007, and noticed that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Long-distance bus transport has become a lot safer, but in many ways the country is as chaotic and corrupt as ever. I wonder if China can ever become truly developed.

I understand that I would need to negotiate a lot with any Chinese uni, since they want, like cabbies, to take the laowai for all they can get.

[eddy-cool]

[eddy-cool]