Job Discussion Forums

[Johaun]

hello all, i am currently in a sort of preliminary interview/application process with a public university in Shanghai. however, the university contact over there is saying that he can't line up a working visa for me because local policy there is that teachers need to have 2 years working experience already. as an alternative, he is asking if i'm okay with teaching on a student visa (i think aka the X visa). does anyone have any input on this? am i getting screwed? is this okay?

[Kirkpatrick]

Don't doit dude!!!! i just got burn with two schools that tried to exploit me on this visa issue.. Ened up having to go 2,000 usd in debt to solve it... You just can't trust Chinese employeers...

[Mister Al]

OP, kirkpatrick is a little green and lacks some negotiating skills, IMO and for whatever reasons he did not get on very well in China, so he comes across as bring somewhat bitter regarding the PRC.

As for your question, the rule is that to be granted the status of Foreign Expert the government requires certain qualifications AND two years relevant working experience. So the potential employer is being truthful.

Working on an X visa could be precarious. You will be a legal resident (to study) but not legal to work. Some people do it and some also work with L (tourist) and F (business) visas but it is risky and you could get deported if you are discovered.

If you really want to come to China in the near future I'd have a look at editing your resume.

[Hansen]

Not OK. Just the first in what may become a nightmare of lies, deceit, rip offs, scams, and so forth "Not qualified" will likely be used to low ball you in wages and benefits as well.

If the school had any thing going on, it wouldn't be an issue. Requirements are constantly ignored, waived, avoided. Find a school that will get you a Z visa.

[Johaun]

on a side note, my cousin's wedding is scheduled in San Francisco during my predicted tenure in China--i have heard that in this case, i would need a multiple-entry visa, correct? can Z and X visas be modified in such a way? if so, i'm assuming i would need to notify the university contact who is getting my visa together?

[kev7161]

I think at the top of the first page there is a sticky about Z visas and residency permits, etc. Lots of factual comments, opinions, war stories, whatever you need to get a feel to answer your question. If you are coming on here seeking people to confirm for you that it is indeed okay to come and work on a student visa, well good luck. I mean, most long-timers here and many newbies as well know that to work LEGALLY in China, you need to get a Z-visa to enter the country, then your employer converts that Z-visa into a Residence Permit to allow you to roam freely about the country as well as come and go freely. If you want to give the X visa a try, then that's up to you. Just be prepared for POSSIBLE consequences.

[eddy-cool]

[arioch36]

[Laurence]

Working on an student visa leaves you vulnerable to:

- getting caught and punished by authorities

- not being paid or reimbursed for travel.

Probably not a good idea.

China being the place it is, you might be able to find another employer in SH who can get you your papers without your fulfilling the two years' experience criterion,

they'd have to like you a lot to do that though, I would imagine. I have seen similar things happen in other cities, especially involving employers who recruit relatively large numbers of foreigners.

There's a nice idea about re-drafting your resume a few posts up, too.

Shanghai is really nice, I think,
but there are plenty of other interesting places where there are less regulations to adhere to.

[TapRed]

1) NEVER trust the Chinese.
2) See rule # 1.

As for visas, no one gives a shit. I have never ever seen, anywhere in China, ANYONE getting arrested for an improper visa. Why? MONEY. If the immigration clown comes around the school's owner forks over a little red envelope and all is good.

When I lived there I was on an F visa (business) and immigration came in and talked to the owner of the school. He paid them off, they left for 6-months and it is the cost of doing business in China. After I got married I got an L visa. (There are 2 types of L visa. 1 is for FAMILY and the other is for TOURIST.) I worked on my family visa under the concept that since I am married to a Chinese national, obviously I must support my family and I would not ever allow my visa to be controlled by any given employer while I also had a Chinese family because family comes first, and that is exactly what I told the woman from immigration when she rocked on up at a college I was at. She smiled, got up, and left.

In China there is the "law" and then..., there is the "law".
That place is like 33 Flavors with something for everyone. Don't sweat it. Teach on any visa for forget about it. Seriously.

Unless you are causing trouble of some sort or standing around waving a FREE TAIWAN AND TIBET FLAG, no one cares and immigration does not have the manpower, money or time to give a rat's ass.

[Teatime of Soul]

[TapRed]

The deal in China is that no one cares.

I know of several "schools" in China operating without a "school license" but rather a consulting and corporate training license. (By the way, I own one myself.) No one cares that the "school" is acting outside of the scope of their licenses. Why? MONEY. Each month the man from the government comes around, and behind closed doors a few red envelopes are exchanged and life is good. I have personally witnessed this many times.

As for immigration...I can personally guarantee you now that I could make a video of illegal teachers working and teaching and being paid in cash without paying taxes at nearly ANY "ESL school" in many cities, (not all), in China and take that to immigration and show them in detail about the "violations" and you know what??? NO ONE is going to respond, because they are all cashing in.

You don't need to work "illegally" but most do, and most with a "valid Z visa" are actually working on a Z visa that was issued from some business other than the school that they actually work for and no one cares. Tourist visas, business visas, and Z visas are all the same.

I worked illegally in China while married to a Chinese woman on an L visa. The FAMILY VISA L, not the L tourist visa. Do you actually think I would fly all the way home to get a Z visa so that I could fly all the way back to China again when I already owned a home, a car, had a business and a wife and baby in China? I don't think so.

Perhaps in some places like Beijing or Shanghai they check visas more often, but I worked in Beijing and never had a problem even when they did come and check, and if they ever did "kick me out" please, deporting me to the USA? LOL!!!! Hey, they would be doing me a favor. My wife has a green card anyway.

Do your job, mind your own business, work hard and no one cares.

[evaforsure]

Whether it is a z issued by an agency or a F issued for business or a x issued for study, the benefit of visa not tied to your working unit is less control over you. There are chances taken by working on anything less than a RP/FEC but they are minimum risk as the norm has been and may well continue to be 'anything goes". During the games a lot of F visas were not re-issued but now a lot of familiar faces are popping up again with those ole F and X's, and seem no worse for the time always from the middle kingdom. The avoidance of taxes seems to be the main reason given as why FT prefer the F visa. The second seems to be the avoidance of control. The third seems to be the ability to work in more than one location. I have seen legal Fs issued to teaching staff in Dalian an Beijing as well as Shenzhen. This is not to say that teaching on a F is legal in all circumstances but there seems to be provisions for it in certain situations. I have never known of anyone who was sent home for teaching on an F visa and although it may have happen.. The results I have seen when it became an issue is for the business to file the proper paperwork and all has gone on as before with the FTs unaware that anything was happening.
As far as taxes go, it is my understanding that the tax office is the only place to get a real tax receipt and that it is given on a bi annual or annual basis.