Job Discussion Forums

[gerard49]

Of course many people say that you don't come to China for the money and yes, this is true up to a point. While I can recommend it as the adventure of a lifetime, we all should be aware of the costs involved. Notwithstanding the financial burden of getting a degree or diploma and the salary you may have forgone in your home country, think hard before you agree to that offer of 2500-3500 rmb.

If you're American you're not so worried about exchange rates but if you're Aussie or British, the RMB has dropped 25% in value since January. Be prepared for a shock if you manage to bring some RMB home to Oz because only travel agents will exchange your hard-earned rmb into dollars- 7 to 1 one way and 5 for 1 the other, in their favour of course.

Not all prospective employers want to pay airfares either, so how can you make sure they see that it's costing you maybe 10-12,000 yuan in airfares, visas, taxes and insurance just to get to China. Travel insurance has doubled in 12 months since SARS but then you weren't going to take it out because most schools offer the tidy sum of 2000 yuan medical insurance, weren't you? Oh well, if you lose your luggage clothing is fairly cheap.

The argument that is given, is the cost of living is much less in China. And yes that's true (up to a point). But do they think that our local bills stop when we come to China? I'm sure they do. Typically, you are told "a coke or beer cost 2-3 Yuan but in your country it's $2". Be prepared, my friends to pay full price and more if you like western brand goods and restaurants, particularly cereals, cheese, beer, coffee etc etc..

If employers are serious about enticing foreigners to China (and keeping them), then salaries of less than 5000/mth are unsatisfactory and less than 4000, are a joke and an insult!!

[Mister Ed]

Not so much that the RMB Yuan has fallen Gerard. It's just they insist on keeping it tied to the USD, which has fallen. If you were paid in USD, and lived anywhere else in the world but the USA, you'd have the same problem.

[Wolf]

Earning US$ at a low rate would certainly be a problem if you only had 400 of them a month. In theory it's the same problem, I suppose... .

Clothing is cheap here, but please make sure that you are Chinese sized first. You don't even have to be fat - simply having a larger frame than the locals will seriously curtail your ability to clothe yourself. It'll still be relatively cheap, but really hard to find things. Suits, etc can be tailor made really cheaply - and reasonably well. If you have size 13 US shoes, then may the force be with you. Don't cancel all your credit cards so that you can order them from nations where such things are available. Or beg your family to send you stuff from time to time. Yes, they get made in China, but you'll be hard pressed to find them for sale.

Paying full prices for "foreign" goods can be avoided by trying to wean yourself from them a bit. You won't shrivel up and die if you stop eating cheese.

[struelle]

[ContemporaryDog]

I'm on 5300 a month and am really not finding it too bad, as there are none of the enormous costs like rent, council tax, bills, food etc. I was on 20k a year in London previously, and with all those astronomical costs I would be using my credit card to pay for lunch by the last week before being paid. Whereas here the money is essentially drinking money. ANd it easily lasts me the month, no problem, and that's including getting cabs everywhere (which I never could in London) and also getting lots of CDs and DVDs. Although a drinking and clubbing binge can get you through 500 odd yuan, if you aren't careful, I've discovered the secret is to have a couple of drinks at home and take advantage of happy hours. I rarely spend more than 150 yuan on a night out now.

[ContemporaryDog]

Ah, I wasn't considering that with some jobs people had to pay for rent, bills, food etc out of that 5000. That's not so great.

I'm finding though that 5300 as basically drinking and DVD money is more than adequate. On nearer 6500 I reckon I could get a fair old wedge saved to take back to the UK with me.

[NumberOneSon]

Comfortable bedding. It got to be a real pain sleeping on those
hard mattresses, so getting some decent pads was an unexpected
expense.

Of course, it's nearly impossible to find decent socks in China,
so be sure to bring plenty.

[Roger]

If you can justify your being in China, then you can justify any "salary" you desire; the question is not whether the Chinese offer you adequate pay by your western standards.
The real question is: why come here when you can make so much more money back home, and with so much less effort?

Or: why do Chinese want to emigrate to the green pastures of the West?

[ContemporaryDog]

"
The real question is: why come here when you can make so much more money back home, and with so much less effort? "

I;m not sure I agree with this Roger. Sure, more money in real terms, but living in London on 20k (which is what a full time teacher starts on) is a lot more difficult with astronomical rent, council tax transport costs etc, is a lot harder than living in China on part time hours for 5300 yuan a month with rent, bills, meals etc already fully covered and that money only having to cover luxuries like beer and DVDs. I swear that 5300 yuan a month goes way further here than 20k a year does in London. Even on 30k a year you're about getting by in London. 40-50k is the minimum you need to be able to get cabs everywhere, buy 10-20 DVDs a month etc. And you have to be doing pretty well to be on 40-50k a year in London.

[Freaky Deaky]

I pay over 3,000 rmb a month for my flat, but it's pretty nice. Food can be dirt cheap - noodles and dumplings are filling and cheap. No end of places selling cd's and dvd's for 5 - 10 rmb. The only real expense is hitting the town. Oh, and a Shanghainese girlfriend...

[Roger]

Well,. ContemporaryDog,
you prove my point - 5000 RMB IS a decent income in China, contrary to the first poster's opinion...

[gerard49]

"then salaries of less than 5000/mth are unsatisfactory..... " I would have thought that means salaries of 5000Y or above ARE satisfactory.
Thanks for the input guys, I agree with much of what is said. As an "oldie" coming to China for the experience rather than the money, I see little reason for new graduates with large debts willing to work for under $100 a week with large upfront costs. My kids would much rather teach in the UK or Japan, and so would many others. Unless Chinese employers want to see the "grey army" invade their country, there are some very important decisions to preceed the Beijing Olympics if they want some degree of fluency in the general population. I think the message is getting through to some institutions, albeit slowly.

[ContemporaryDog]

[quote="Freaky Deaky"]I pay over 3,000 rmb a month for my flat, but it's pretty nice. Food can be dirt cheap - noodles and dumplings are filling and cheap. No end of places selling cd's and dvd's for 5 - 10 rmb. The only real expense is hitting the town. Oh, and a Shanghainese girlfriend... [/quote]

Out of interest, how much money could I expect to get in Shanghai? The costs do seem to be more there (I have no rent as the accommodation is free, in a shared flat provided by the school which is fairly nice with a decent room with en suite shower and bath) so am I right in thinking that one can expect to get around 10,000 a month in Shanghai?

[ContemporaryDog]

[quote="Roger"]Well,. ContemporaryDog,
you prove my point - 5000 RMB IS a decent income in China, contrary to the first poster's opinion...[/quote]

It wouldn't be great if I had to pay for rent, bills, food, etc. But as these are all free, I've actually got more disposable income than I had when I was working full time in stupidly expensive London.

[ContemporaryDog]

[quote="gerard49"]"then salaries of less than 5000/mth are unsatisfactory..... " I would have thought that means salaries of 5000Y or above ARE satisfactory.
Thanks for the input guys, I agree with much of what is said. As an "oldie" coming to China for the experience rather than the money, I see little reason for new graduates with large debts willing to work for under $100 a week with large upfront costs. My kids would much rather teach in the UK or Japan, and so would many others. Unless Chinese employers want to see the "grey army" invade their country, there are some very important decisions to preceed the Beijing Olympics if they want some degree of fluency in the general population. I think the message is getting through to some institutions, albeit slowly.[/quote]

Maybe I've been lucky with this job, which is OK apart from the school's dumb rule about how you have to handg around the office when you aren't teaching (which they've dropped now its got so cold), but I have no upfront costs at all. In fact I've never had to worry so little about living costs in my life! Its so good not having to think, now when's the electricity bill coming in, when's the rent due, when's the council tax due, etc, and having free meals on weekdays provided by the school (which are bad sometimes, but also sometimes nice). Rather teach in the UK? On 1200 a month sterling take home? Sure that's more, but with the astronomical costs of London, you are probably left with about 500 quid a month to spend on going out, buying DVDs etc etc, and you can buy considerably more of those on 4-500 quid a month in China than you can in the UK.

Having said that I may go on to Japan next year.