Job Discussion Forums

[reactionary]

I'm leaving a job for personal reasons to return to my home country.

My contract says I have to give 4 months notice to terminate my contract.

I gave 11 weeks.

That's less than is asked, but I thought it would be ok, and I really have no choice.

My boss freaked out. She's convinced they need 5 months to find, train (conditional training pre-contract and pre-immigration visit for one month...no wonder i had to go to korea for a 2 day trip), and get a visa for a replacement teacher.

I had the following things said to me throughout the day (quick shouting-bouts at me in between classes)

"You can't quit! If you try, we will withhold your salary!"

"You should reconsider."

"OK, if you can find a teacher who is BETTER than you and MORE RESPONSIBLE than you, then you can quit."


Uh...Any help? Which of these statements should I believe? I feel like I should've just jumped ship unannounced after paycheck since obviously either way this job isn't going on my resume. Sorry I might not be entirely coherent, it was a whirlwind of a day.

[Billy Chaka]

Obviously, your boss is being unreasonable/immature. If I were in your position, this is what I would do:

1. Tell your boss she is right. You've reconsidered, and you're not going to quit.

2. Don't give any notice.

3. Make sure you've collected as much of the money as possible that is due to you.

4. When you're ready to quit, do so (without any notice).

Nobody can tell you when or when not you can or cannot quit. You can quit whenever you want to. You attempted to do it in a responsible way. Your boss is acting unreasonable. Now it's time to do it in a way that's to your maximum advantage.

[reactionary]

Yeah, I mean I was really confused by it. Obviously if one of my next two paydays don't come around, I won't be going to work the next day...so why even threaten that? They'd get a free month's labor as I definitely won't be sticking around to fight it...but then if they didn't want me quitting early why would they do that?!?!?

But, rejecting my notice? Telling me I'm irresponsible for giving 11 WEEKS? Am I being spoken to like a child? Are they going to try to physically restrain me when I go to the airport?

This isn't the worst bout I've had with an ESL employer (that was in Korea), but it's by far the strangest.

I'd like to follow your advice, but I think they know I'm quitting and would know I'm bullshitting if I had a sudden change of heart. I'm not sure I could even say it without bursting in laughter; the absurdity of it. "Yeah so all that loud talking-to you gave me yesterday really made me see the light - I think I'll finish my contract at this fine learning institute!"

[Nabby Adams]

This isn't a school in south Osaka is it? I had the same experience a few years ago. Stick to your guns, say you're going to the union, and things should work out ok.

[fluffyhamster]

The clause in the contract is surely non-binding, even if you did consent to it by signing. (I'm pretty sure the Labour Laws state weeks, or even days, rather than months as being the minimum required notice). Then again, for certain types of jobs where labour is in arguably shorter supply, the principle rather than the letter should perhaps rule, and that principle is that you should try to do what you signed up to do. (I once had a pretty bad job - it wasn't so much the employer but rather the types of student - but I worked the three months' notice they required). All that being said, Billy Chaka's advice is tempting, and as Nabby mentions, there's always the union if things go from bad to worse.

[Glenski]

Withhold your salary? Bluff. It's against the law.

11 weeks is more than enough time, especially right now in January. How long have you been working there?

[reactionary]

I've been here since July (for training). I signed two contracts - my unofficial one started August, my immigration-approved one started in September.

They're obsessed with the idea that they're a "special" school and require more time to recruit and train quality (read: young and pliable?) teachers than the big companies.

The other thing (in my favor) is I'm quitting right before a 2 week vacation in late March, which is the end of the year, school-wise. I thought that might catch me some sort of a break for leaving a bit early....apparently not.

[fluffyhamster]

Immigration approves contracts? Don't you mean they just grant permission to work? (The stuff you said about 'conditional training pre-contract and pre-immigration visit for one month...no wonder i had to go to korea for a 2 day trip' makes it sound like this school asks teachers/tourists/whatever to work illegally, without a visa and contract, so they can decide if they like the person enough to consider even paying anything, let alone retaining them on a more permanent/less illegal basis. If so, that is all very dodgy, and you are lucky things have worked out as "well" as they so far have! (There have been horror stories of gullible bright young things getting done out of all pay owing and not having a leg to stand on regarding legal redress and compensation because they were of course working illegally!)).

[reactionary]

Yes, that is exactly what happened.

I arrived July 1st and started training.

At the end of July I signed a contract and went to immigration, submitting _one of_ my signed contracts. Clearly if I wasn't up to par during that training, there would've been no contract signing or immigration trip.

I worked illegally from August to October waiting for my visa. I had to go on a 2 day visa trip to Korea - partly due to longer visa wait times, partly due to the company having me wait a month to apply for my visa after I arrived.

The reason I say this is because I'm the one getting lectured on being irresponsible. I have my two contracts (one that says I started work in Aug, one that says Sept) as proof.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

It sounds a bit like a case of 'We Japanese are different' but applied to thier school instead of the country.

If they really do believe that they are so very special, then they should be doing what they can to keep these quality teachers happy so that they won't want to leave.

I think you should just say absolutely nothing more to the school on the subject. You've already given your notice. You presumeably gave an exact date when you'd leave, so just leave then and that's that. Don't be surprised if you don't get your last pay without going to a lawyer.

If (and when) they try to push you, then tell them that you have already told them what you are going to do and that you would like it if they could just put their statements in writing because you will discuss the situation with a lawyer. When they refuse, you pull out a list and say 'On [date], I was told that you would with-hold my salary. On [date] I was told that I could only quit if I found my replacement, although I am not a Human Resources manager. On [date] I was told... I've already told you what I'm going to do and I'm not going to discuss it directly with you any more'.

What they are asking you to do is unreasonable, but keep in mind that you ARE breaking a contract that you signed by not giving them the four months (?!?!?!?! WTF!!!!) notice. OTOH, Managers who have any sense at all understand that once an employee has taken the step of giving notice, they've already made up their mind- unless people are quitting in the heat of the moment, then they have already put a lot of thought into it. At that point, the manager should be as nice as possible. They do not want a former employee bad-mouthing them, or bringing down the morale of the other workers (people are more likely to quit when they've seen their co-woprkers quit, and even moreso if they have chance to talk to them and hear of WHY the employee has quit). It's not uncommon for managers to tell their employees that they don't need to come in for their two-weeks ntice, but that they will be getting paid for it (no employer is going to tell an employee who has quit that they can ride out the eleven weeks notice, or four month notice that their contract stipulates, from home).

[cornishmuppet]

You came here and worked (sorry, "trained") for a month for no pay and without signing a contract?? What on earth were you thinking??

Sounds like another waste of space "school" with dumb management, merely from what you say came out of your manager's mouth. The law is four weeks, give her that, then leave. She can't penalise you in any way. I'm sure Glenski or someone else has links to the labor laws.

[reactionary]

Training was 800 yen/hr.

But yeah, considering how the place operates, I can't feel too much pity for them for my lack of "sufficient" notice.

[Glenski]

If they complain to you ever again, just say you will report their illegal operations (training/working, and contract clauses about penalties for quitting) to the Labor Standards office. You've already done your time, so hold it over their heads that if they try pulling a fast one, it is they who will get bitten.

[reactionary]

http://nambufwc.org/japanese-law/labor-standards-law/

First year of a one year contract � you can quit at either the end of the contract or quit by following the procedures laid out in the contract for quitting. If you don�t follow these rules your company has a theoretical claim against you but can only act on this by using civil court procedures.


So it looks like I am in the wrong?

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

As I wrote before, you ARE talking about breaking a contract- that alone puts you in 'the wrong'.

But from the link you provided,