Job Discussion Forums

yellofello · Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 68

Maybe we ought to start an international organization

TEACHERS WITHOUT BORDERS

so that members can call upon them for assistance in case of unfair/illegal treatment or mistreatment. A lot of the private schools seem to be treating their staff very badly.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Lots of luck with that one... teachers in the US are basically powerless to get decent pay and benefits, although their working conditions *might* be better in some ways. Teachers in the Gulf get superior pay and benefits, but must accept some sub-standard working conditions.

It all comes down to choice. You have chosen to take a job there. If you don't like it... go somewhere else.

We're a dime a dozen and easily replaced if we make waves... the only power that we have is to warn people away from the worst of the lot.

VS

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject:

Well said, VS. Short-n-sweet,,,jes' like I like it. Cool

NCTBA

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

VS...do you mean public K-12 schools in the US? Seems to me, an average of $45 or 50K per annum in Houston (where nice four bedroom houses in nice neighborhoods can be bought for $150K--wanna buy mine?) with full medical coverage and three-month vacations, is a decent alternative to the Gulf. Of course, teachers' salaries and purchasing power vary according to state and city, but surely it's generally not a bad deal considering school teachers are not lawyers, docs or engineers.
All in all a fairly secure job, albeit unpleasant to many.

If you mean ESL people in the tertiary sector and (God fobid) language schools, I agree completely.

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject:

Dear Sheik,
Ah, but no taxes, no rent, often no utilities, etc. often means you can save about 90% of what you make in the ME (depending on how "thrifty" you are) whereas that teacher making 45 or 50 grand in Houston is almost always living from paycheck to paycheck.
Regards,
John

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject:

Ya know, to the OP, the first thing tht hit my mind, was "Bedu"? But, I digress... It'd be nice to have such a caring organization of people...and not to say that there aren't loads and loads of them, many that I personally know, but there is that subset who LIVE to backstab you. Personally, I agreed with VS on this board, that boards like these, where people can warn off those WHO ARE WILLING TO LISTEN, is probably the best "Teachers without Borders" that can be offered. Jes' my TCW.

NCTBA

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

Johnslat...that's the old refrain abt the ME, tax-free and free housing. But if you're paid off your house in Houston or wherever, the 115 F. heat, the dust and all the rest that come with the ME become a lot less compelling. I can effect a lot of tax deductions too. Would you really go to the Middle East for the same salary if your house is paid off (better than any Gulf apartment we lowly TEFLers can get, by the way)...just to avoid income tax?

johnslat · Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:16 am Post subject:

Dear Sheikh,
Probably not - but how many EFLers have their houses all paid for. Not too many, I'll wager.
Regards,
John

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

I'd say yes I would. Even once my house was paid off, the rent provided further income and paid all expenses like RE taxes and upkeep.

Plus, I have to say that the majority of places that I lived in the Gulf were as nice or nicer than the places I lived/owned in the US. It wasn't until near the end of my TEFL career that I was able to sell my original property and actually upgrade to a flat that was superior to my housing in the Gulf.

And I would lose that free ticket to travel for two months every summer. Most teachers in the US have to get a part-time job in the summers... painting houses or whatever... to try to catch up financially.

VS

Tensne1 · Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 19

I think -- and hope -- that a move to the ME will be an upgrade for me. I live in a house I bought four years ago for half-price through the Teacher Next Door program here in the US. The price was right, and I was lured by the idea that owning real estate is an investment -- it's usually a fact, but I'm caught in real estate's perfect storm. At any rate, I plan to teach abroad beginning in August and begin to save enough money to travel and discover the place I can't live without... Then I'll buy a better house -- Teacher Next Door houses are situated in "revitalization" neighborhoods and HUD-owned following a foreclosure, usually. They are not tidy, attractive houses by any stretch of the imagination.

eha · Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 355 Location: ME

'...It all comes down to choice. You have chosen to take a job there. If you don't like it... go somewhere else....'

Right. And if you don't like the planet, there are plenty of others not available to you.

'...We're a dime a dozen and easily replaced if we make waves... the only power that we have is to warn people away from the worst of the lot. ...'

Oh, yes--- but isn't this what was said to the labour leaders on whose sacrifices the current labour scene was built? If they hadn't been willing to stick their necks out, where would we all be today? Also, if people hadn't supported each other in speaking out, nothing would have changed.
And: if you agree that this kind of forum is useful for 'warning people away from the worst', why are so many posters so ready to attack anyone who tries to tell it like it happened? Not to mention co-workers.
If such conditions had prevailed in the 19th and early 20th centuries, we'd all be working 19-hour days with whip-cracking overseers making sure we didn't take too many bathroom breaks.

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:26 am Post subject:

Not to echo the previous posters, but I too, have a house fully paid off. It's really the only good thing I got outta da Saudi slog. I'm back in the ME and because of the type of job I have, it only starts to hot up a few weeks before I leave and I plunge back into it at its worst...but only for a few months. Very Happy

The reason, I'm still here is, of course, for the money and the benes, but, now, I call many of the shots where as before, without a place to call my own (and I don't mean, it's my house, but yeah, I have a mortgage) I didn't have that option.

Now, I can truly and easily walk away if I don't like the situation I find myself in...well, after giving "proper" notice. Very Happy

NCTBA

P.s.- Has anyone else noticed how COLD it is in the Gulf this winter? It's downright bone-chilling!

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Build some more strawmen eha... planet? Laughing

19 century working conditions? The fact is that you are NOT working in your own country and all this talk of a union type organization is a complete waste of breath when you are a guest worker. There is no "world union" or organization for any field.

The world governments or the UN or whatever don't care whether some TEFL teacher doesn't like the management system in whatever country. Especially when you are being paid more and better than teachers in your own country. No taxes? Free furnished housing? Free health care? Long vacations with a paid ticket? Gratuities? Wow all of the ESL teachers in the US and the UK get that. Rolling Eyes

(I wonder how many of them would accept a stupid manager and a little verbal abuse for that kind of income and benefits)

Get real... if it is sooooooooooooo awful where you work... go home!

VS

basiltherat · Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 952

eha · Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 355 Location: ME

Maybe the OP referred to a 'union-type' organisation; I certainly didn't. I merely pointed out that nothing changes if people do nothing-- and the first step in a thousand-mile journey is to PLAN FOR IT. In other words, think about it and talk about it. We're not at the action stage yet-- also, why the over-reaction? I personally have never complained about contractual conditions-- even though I've encountered the odd bit of discrimination here and there. Many people do so complain; and maybe it would be acceptable to tell them to --- what Basiltherat said. But there are situations which really shouldn't arise in a professional situation, and I don't regard it as 'complaining' to discuss them--- or to suggest that they should be discussed. Telling someone to 'leave if you don't like it' reflects such a primitive, nihilistic outlook: what kind of person would tell a colleague who was, say, having trouble with a class, to 'leave if s/he didn't like it'? There might be ways to deal with the situation --- but not if we don't develop a shred of collegiality and support each other.