Job Discussion Forums

[Atlantean]

What's the best country for someone in their early fifties(Other than the old folk's home)? I currently teach in Ukraine, but I need to save more money. I am thinking about Asia, particularly China or Vietnam. I have a CELTA and an MBA. I'd like to find someplace where being an English teacher is a good job by local standards. Here, I'm considered to not be wealthy enough by most of the local golddiggers. I'm tired of being thought of as a peasant. I don't need to get rich, but I'd like to not be instantly dismissed because of my profession. Thanks in advance for your input.

[naturegirl321]

50 is the new 30. I've heard that China and Mexico are great places though for mature teachers.

[thelmadatter]

I second Mexico for work atmosphere, dont know if youre savings situation would be any better. It really depends on your qualifications and willingness to be patient.

Age, for qualified English teachers anyway, is not really an issue. Mexico's job market does have a problem with age discrimination in general, but mostly because there arent enough jobs. In a field where they need qualified people, they dont then care about age.

Mexico City has a good business English scene though it takes a while to get established and getting the good gigs. Gotta pay your dues I guess.

Another plus for Mexico if youre American... fairly easy to get access to your Social Security. If it still exists when youre old enough for it... me... I aint holding my breath and Im 44.

[william wallace]

China, if saving is modestly important,but I'd think Korea too - if 50 REALLY is the new 30, and not just for the pampered elite of western culture.

[thelmadatter]

Just reread your post... if youre looking for a place where youd have no problems dating as an English teacher... Mexico is it!

[SpedEd]

That fact that you mentioned China and earnings in the same breath tells me that may be ill informed regarding the job market in this country. I estimate about 90% of teachers come to China to 'experience' it rather than to realistically save a tangible amount of money, that is money they can bring home to their native countries and call 'savings'.

I'm not sure of Mexico, but I believe it to be in the same league thereabouts as China in that the earnings are low for the typical ESL teacher, plain and simple. Now I lucked out and found a job in Shanghai with a Korean outfit that pays way above average (actually about what I was making at my salaried job in Seoul, Korea), but this is a true exception. And there are some really sticky visa issues going on right now in China thanks to the omnipresent summer Olympics regulations.

I see some senior guys around here and it appears to me that they're here for the wrong reasons. I mean is it dignified to walk around in public with a Chinese woman who's being presented as your significant other who's 20, 30, or more years your junior? I hope that I'm never caught doing this at that age. Btw, I hadn't seen this going on in wealthier countries such as Korea because the women aren't willing to demoralize themselves for the money, and frankly don't need to.

If you're wanting to have status *and* earn a decent living as a TESL instuctor then there are myriad places other than China and Mexico to do this. Reflect on your personal reasons for wanting to teach abroad to make certain they are realistic with your goals/objectives.

[william wallace]

China has ESL/EFL jobs ranging from volunteering to about 4,000 USD per month, and the middle ground between 800-1200 USD per month.
I don't see your request for women...?
The poster above is typical of youth being ageist -Like they'll be different when they get there(repeated a few trillion times in history);though I do agree an age gap that is seriously wide will harbour negative opinions, and the natural proclivity obviously diverges from the sexy stud, to some other Darwinian motive- power or money.

[NeilBarker]

China.
Age is irrelevant. You'll be treated like a rockstar anywhere unused to foreigners, and you will walk into a job with your MBA. Wear a suit and tie to visit a school and their jaws will drop as they reach for the contract. Bits of paper with MBA or PhD on them are far more impressive in China than anything with ESL/EFL in the title. They may never have heard of the CELTA! You can easily get around 15000 RMB per month in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, plus free apartment, working from 9 to 3.30, Mon - Fri, if you look carefully at the opportunities. Plenty of chances to do private lessons. No stress - just keep the students happy, accept that the school is a business (private schools), and accept that Chinese management methods are inefficient, illogical, unAmerican, blah blah....
Be flexible. Forward planning isn't a forte here, so don't rely on your schedule remaining the same as they told you yesterday.
Infinitely less red tape than Korea, where the money may be a little more but you'll work far harder for it and have a far higher cost of living.
What's more, as a teacher you will be respected.
Lovely people, easy to make friends or get girlfriends, relaxed, low cost living, plenty to see and do, lots of free time. That's been my experience. Lots of people will disagree, but I can assure you that my experience is, er, my experience. Just don't expect western standards of comfort or hygiene. These matter greatly to some people and they have an awful time because of it, but frankly you get used to things here pretty fast.

[william wallace]

RE:China.
|"Age is irrelevant". I am on my 15th year in Beijing China, so I've noticed a few changes,and China semi-getting-with-the-program is part of this.I have a buddy here who is 67(ESL for 35 years), and he is not able to get a proper visa to work due to his age;China has an age limit for the legal/proper "Z" working visa.

Pre-internet, you'd be treated in grand fashion.( "treated like a rockstar"), but that's a mighty high level of expectation now.I'd say some Timbuktu places would be eager to have a body.

"Bits of paper with MBA or PhD on them are far more impressive in China"- Very true! Though I often wonder why someone so legitimately qualified work for meager wages?

"They may never have heard of the CELTA!".
"You can easily get around 15000 RMB per month in Beijing"(Full stop!) Good luck with that! Just Yesterday, I was telling this teacher for Manila that 6,000 RMB WITHOUT housing allowance is unacceptable, or any transportation,medical allowances.

"Plenty of chances to do private lessons"- In theory yes, but private schools and recruiters (AKA businesses) have many ads in Chinese newspapers to attract these clients and then hire FTs to do "One-on-one" for considerably less, and lots of competition and one "school" had 35 teachers on call ,yet the teacher with the most hours per week was a paltry six hours!

"No stress"-Everyone has different levels of tolerance to stress,but a simple rule of thumb is higher the salary, higher the expectations(stress)
"don't rely on your schedule remaining the same as they told you yesterday." true! OR, your contract expectations, or even your job itself.
"easy to make friends or get girlfriends" I hope you don't imply easy to get girlfriends ? I would think if it is, unlike say another locale, there must be some serious and dark motive in the attraction.

Have low expectations!! Savings in case of emergency, and a very good independent health insurance.
Good lucky

[mondrian]

[wolf4495]

Hi Atlantean

well for me personally the best experience was Thailand. I was there teaching a few years before I took my wife and and two boys to New Zealand, just to get them an English Language Education. After that we are planning to go back to Thailand.
When we are going back we try to teach at a University.
And that is what I could recommend you, with a MBA and native English you could have a great future in Thailand.
If money is important it's paid very well.
Average in Bangkok might be US$ 1000 , as Lecturer your looking at US $ 1500 and maybe more after a few years.
But there are famous Universities like Khon Kaen, ChiangMai, Chulalongkorn, Thammasat, all with worldwide recognition.
Great places to be.

A destination centred in Asia, wherefrom you can travel to see Asia.

I forgot to tell you my age, when I quit teaching. 50.
When we go back I might be 56 or 58 but still good enough to teach for a few more years.

So don't think age is an obstacle as long as you feel healthy and fit to teach and can adapt to your environment.

Ok one more thing, Thailand is a cheap place to live and save some money, unless you take a trip to Macau.

All Your Best

Wolfgang

[bharrell]

Atlantean had trouble with his login, so he has gotten a new ID.
China it is!
BTW, I never wanted to date women 20 years younger than me. Doesn't feel right. 10 years is no problem, however!
I really appreciate all the input, and I wish that I could have thanked you all sooner.

[Last goodbye]

Seoul..

With an MBA you can make a lot of money... I make 4K/month here teaching 30 hours/wk with no MBA... there are many business classes in the morning that look for MBA's and private jobs. I have often seen jobs that pay 10K for 10 weeks and they want someone with a business background for those classes.

Usually though, you have to be in Seoul now to get a good job. They usually wait until the last minute to post jobs.

look on www.worknplay.co.kr

[ntropy]

Best place for an old guy?

In a young woman's arms.

[johnslat]

Dear ntrophy,
Sorry, I disagree. Old guy + young woman = Stupid guy + gold-digger.

The best place for an old guy is in his old lady's arms.

Regards,
John (a really old guy)