Job Discussion Forums

[leeroy]

[Wolf]

My students have a desire to learn, adapted well to a "CLT" approach, and I'm given leeway to do so by my school. So basically I get to be fairly communicative. Access to alternate materials is a bit of a problem (I can get stuff from the 'net, but making copies for everyone is the real kicker.)

I don't think it's possible to make great improvements in communicative ability without some sort of "communicative" practice in classes. Especially in an EFL setting where the students are not going to go out and spend all day speaking their new language. I don't need to read any books to form this opinion; I have enough proof from my own teaching experiences.

I don't have time to write more on this now.

[struelle]

[Dr.J]

While the communicative approach has certain advantages for some students, my view is that it doesn't go far enough. It's obvious that the people who learn a language are those who have the chance to use it in a real situation. Communicatively, one year in a target language speaking country is worth 3 years classroom study - no contest.

Even though we might be doing the same thing, a real activity is miles apart from a communicative game in terms of motivation. No one knows this more than the students.

(BTW you can test communicative ability quite easily if you have an oral exam. Just have the students communicate to you what's on a random card, what they ate last night etc.)

[arioch36]

The problem with such discussions are many-fold.

What level are the students and teachers? Are we only talking about foreign teachers, or Chinese teachers as well? In the high school I taught at, the Chinese teachers were not able to communicate easily in English. So, obviously, they never used this approach with their students. Most of the "lower tier" colleges I have taught at have students from this stratum. The idea of talking in English in a communicative way is foreign to them. They would rather stand in the playground reading passages out of a book, then to try talking to someone else.

Roger does have a hang-up about oral/communicative style of class. He says it does work in China, but the truth is it is rarely practised in China. And if a teacher doesn't believe in an "approach", then of course it won't work. For many reasons it is alien to the Chinese students. Oral English class takes much more effort then any other class I teach (reading, writing, literature and so on). It is so much easier to stand up, and talk yoourself, while only a few good students in the class respond. Most of the students sit with their minds asleep. This is accepted by many Chinese teachers. Foreign teachers with God-complexes (myself at times) think that simply because they walk in a classroom, the studentswill/should automatically switch from passive to active mode.

I believe that the "communicative approach", at least intitially, must be very teacher, yes teacher centered, and very scripted at first. At least here in China. You must start with baby steps (Vgotsky, anyone?), with you leading them, directing them, etc. The picture in my mind is of a pilot training a students. At first, the student isn't given any control. Once the student develops a feel for what he needs to do, the student can be given more freedom, and flying becomes more fun.

The other problem in using a "communicative approach" is buying too much into any "approach". If I had to advocate any approach, I would nominate an integrative approach. My oral english students have written homework each week. They have to write their new vocabulary words as a group, and use them...written and verbally. They have to do research to find specific details backing what they say. And they get quizzed on oral English.

Unfortunately, there is little reading material. But watching the movie Pride and Prejudice has gotten many of them to read the simplified version that this library has.

I would nominate the work-centered approach. When i do the above, the results are very nice. and the students seem to become more active. But if I don't collect and grade homework, most, almost all students will just copy some things from a book, and the homework will be pathetic. can't blame the students much, because this is the way they have ben trained, and if I don't grade/correct the homework, I am only reinforcing this way.

If I don't test on new vocabulary, they won't study it. And so on (that's a Chinese joke..."and so on". Let's be honest...most teachers, Chinese and foreign, in China, do not take their jobs that seriously, and don't want to put in that much effort. That often includes me. Most chinese students do not study as hard as American students,, and most foreign and Chinese teachers don't work as hard as American teachers, or take their job as seriously. How many of us give homework, and grade it?

no, let's be honest, we can get away with being lazy, so we are. We are always lookig for more money, to teach more classes. Versus my mother, who taught in America, who would probably spend several hours each day on homework. So, if as a teacher, I refuse to put in work outside the classroom, am I a hypocrite to expect that my students to put in work outside the classroom?

[Roger]

One of the world's bestsellers, NEW CONCEPT ENGLISH, demonstrably is geared towards communicative acuisition of English, and it has been in use for over three decades. It's still widely used in the PR of C, and I for one find it an outstanding workbook series.
Unfortunately, Chinese have a knack for misunderstanding theories concocted in the West - you can see that in their misrepresentation of Marxism, to name but that one.
The concept of communicative teaching too is widely misunderstood. It seems many Chinese teachers would believe reading aloud and repeating questions and answers straight from a lesson is "communicative". I have on several occasions observed Chinese teachers randomly select a lesson from NCE tome 2, and read aloud each sentence of the passage, with the students duly chorussing after her. Then, she would perhaps improvise a question like "Is Mr Smith a clever man?", and the whole class would roar, "No!"

Not only that, but the whole lesson is not being conducted in English, it's conducted in Chinese, talking about English. For every English vocable, the Chinese teacher would use maybe ten Chinese ones in explanations and verbatim translations. By the way, NCE being printed in China is BILINGUAL, so no student has to learn English the "hard" way - they can all conveniently refer to a literal translation, besides having the regular benefit of a list of new words with each lesson. Tell me what is "communication" if you don't learn to solve your own comprehension problems on your own? Language acquisition involves a good deal of trials and errors, and students must learn to identify their own mistakes, shortcomings and weaknesses. That's simply not happening in China.
They memorise how to ask the most chitchatty questions and HOW TO ANSWER THEM; thus they never get prepared for answers that do not come as expected.
Has it never happened to you that a Chinese person claims he or she canNOT UNDERSTAND YOU, only to use a virtually identical phrase or sentence minutes later?

[arioch36]

Now that is a post i can totally agree on. I'm teachingan extra 6 hours at a school that has a similar textbook, the vocabualry words are okay, but the chinese is right next to the english, so the student never has to think.

(I shake my head sadly in despair)

[struelle]

[dduck]

struelle, I enjoyed your post greatly. That's the most positive thing I've heard about teaching in China! It's nice to hear that Chinese students can be flexible in their behaviour and thinking.

Iain

[leeroy]

[Cleopatra]

A colleage once showed me this "Bluff your way in EFL" guide.

When in a staff meeting, and someone says "What do you think of this acitivity?", the best response according to the guide is to look slightly skeptical and say "Hmm... not very communicative, is it?"

Can't go wrong!

[struelle]