Job Discussion Forums

[Littlebird]

If all goes wrong or you can't get a job soon after arriving can you claim benefits in Poland ? If so, do you get something equivalent to Jobseeker's allowance and Housing Benefit ? Of course Poles claim in this country so I hope UK nationals can claim in theirs. Is this the case for all EU countries ?

Also does anyone know if the employment law whereby you can be dismissed in the first year of your employment without your employer having to give a reason either orally or in writing is in force in the EU as it is apparently in the UK ?

Something what worries me when you go abroad especially to these countries where the language is difficult is how do you fill in forms, live, report an emergency, call an ambulance when you don't speak a word of the language ? Of course you can learn but sometimes it is impossible to get your tongue round a language. I have tried Danish for example and found that impossible. French, Spanish, German is in comparison easy. Just wondered how you all got along.

Thanks

[Richfilth]

Starting backwards, Danish should be relatively straightforward; it's a type of German, and I didn't have much problem getting to grips with its cousins (Swedish, Norwegian and Icelandic.) Polish, on the other hand, is a monstrous headache well documented on this forum.

For the benefits system, Poland is a joke. I have no idea how you would go about making claims over here, but those who are entitled to something receive very little; I think unemployment benefit is about 800zls a month, and will require hours in an office filling in a myriad of forms that you won't understand. You will not receive English-languange advice.

As for contracts and being fired, it is exceptional for any employer to offer you a full-time contract within a year of offering you a position. For office work you'll be given a succession of three-month contracts with a series of agencies until they are forced to offer you a one-year position, and for teaching work you will be contracted as a freelancer (monthly contracts for a set number of hours with no welfare benefit entitlements) or asked to establish your own company (where the welfare payments far exceed the benefits you're entitled to afterwards.) Using these types of contract, an employer can, I presume, fire you at a moment's notice with only the requirement to buy back your annual leave (if you have any). Because permanent employment contracts are so heavily weighed towards the employee (three MONTHS notice required by the employer unless stated otherwise), getting a permanent contract is a very rare occasion. Combine that with a massive backlog in the law courts for civil infractions and very very few employee tribunals or unions, and you'll see workers' rights infringed most days without batting an eyelid.

Poland, despite its Communist history, is NOT a welfare state, and I would not recommend coming here if you have a history of being "de-hired" or if you are anticipating lengthy periods of medical incapacitation preventing you from work.

[spiral78]

Another thing to consider carefully is how much financial cushion you have available when you go abroad.
Consider: most landlords will want one month's rent as security, and one month's rent up front. YOu may have to pay an agent's fee of up to one month's rent as well.
Language schools generally pay monthly, at the END of the month worked. You can figure the math - don't go without enough to get yourself by for 3-4 months without pay.
Also, there is timing to consider. European language schools almost never give jobs to anyone from abroad - you have to be here, CV in hand, looking professional and reliable, before you even get a hearing, unless you have specialist qualifications. Most contracts are Sept/Oct - June. So, you need to plan to get to the country end August, early September and seek a job that will start in Oct, and your first paycheck at the end of Oct.
It's do-able, but plan carefully to avoid problems!!

[Littlebird]

Thanks to you both !

Very depressing answers from both of you. This means that I will have to borrow money to go. I am horrified at the lack of benefits situation I was expecting to get benefits. How much can you expect to earn ? How many hours can you expect to work ? I may just avoid Poland.

Cheers

[dynow]

[Harry from NWE]

[spiral78]

I really try to be patient with newbies, as it's fair that their expectations may not always be realistic.

However, I have to say that the idea that a very inexperienced newbie teacher would be entitled to benefits from a foreign country in the event that no one wants to hire her immediately is kind of outside my (fairly extensive) experience.

Sorry, but - no, this is entirely unrealistic - not just for Poland!!

[hrvatski]

[Littlebird]

You lot are such judgemental idiots !!! Asylum seekers and immigrants from all over the world come to the UK and get benefits. In France and many other EU countries those in receipt of benefit in the UK are entitled to claim benefit. Dave Sperling even has encouraged someone to do just that abroad. Get on benefits in this country then go and claim abroad whilst looking for a job. I certainly don't intend to stay on benefits indefinitely in Poland or anywhere else for that matter. Why you seem to think I am not intending to work at all I don't know. It must be nice to have always had a job and never to have been on benefits and feel that those who are are scroungers who have never done a full days work in their life. hrvatski Why do you think I have not contributed to society or were you refering to the Polish society ? I'm sure that a lot of Eastern Europeans are working in the black market too and not paying tax at all.There are also a lot of immigrants who are prepared to work for ridiculously low wages leaving British people on the dole as well of course taking jobs that are low wages anyway that a British person would do. The EU is supposed to be one great big market remember. The thing is the UK take more immigrants than all the other countries combined despite already overpopulated.

I am on benefits now. It would be stupid not to claim if I was entitled to benefits abroad. You ask a simple question and just get shot down by a bunch of superior people. Surely the teachers in France are claiming some sort of benefit because I have heard of people being unable to secure enought money to live on so what choice do they have ? If you can only find 10 hours of work a week what can you do ?

I don't care if an immigrant has to work for a while before claiming benefits. I don't think you're right anyway. What about their children, parents ? They will receive housing benefit, working tax credit, food vouchers, childcare vouchers just like British people and they have not as you say paid into the system at least not in this country.

Get off your high horses !! Have you heard of disability and redundancy ? These things put people on benefits as does the recession.

[Richfilth]

Before you spout any more Daily Mail at us, it might be wise to swallow your pride a little bit.

The only benefits any migrant is automatically guaranteed upon entry to the UK is child benefit, for obvious reasons. ALL others are calculated on a merit basis; if you don't merit it, you don't get it.

This DOES NOT include asylum seekers, whose need is based on their country of exit. If they've come in from France, they'll be sent straight back there, without benefits, as is required by the EU. Anyway, that's moot. You're not an asylum seeker.

Now, if you're on benefits in the UK, you must have a valid reason to relocate to a foreign EU territory; despite borderless crossings and residency across most EU states, tax and welfare are subject to intra-country agreements, and there is no one single catch-all treaty that guarantees welfare to each EU citizen in all states equally. The best you'll get is medicover, upon production of your GB-issued E111 form. "I like pierogi" or "I'm an English teacher despite never having actually done the job at any point anywhere" are not valid reasons for work-based relocation.

The idea of "contributing to a country" is perfectly valid. If you come here and can't work, go home again. The EU is a market, after all, not a unified state. If you don't fit the market, f*** off elsewhere - no EU state is obliged to look after you the moment you enter the territory, unless you are in dire need (see asylum seekers.) If a teacher can't find work, stop being a teacher and go and pick potatoes like all the other migrant workers.

Also, calling "us lot" judgemental idiots, in such a sweeping generalisation, really does disincentivise those of us with the knowledge and the heart from helping you. Keep up that attitude and you'll learn about Poland the very very hard way, like the rest of us did.

[Littlebird]

Here we are I thought you could get benefits. I should have just looked on the DWP website and not bothered with the forum. This is from: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/sa29/benefits_01.asp in case you think I am a liar as well as a scrounging skiviving idiot.

UK contribution-based JSA in another EEA country

If you are getting UK contribution-based JSA,and you have been registered as available for work, usually for four weeks, at a UK Jobcentre Plus office or Jobcentre, you may be able to carry on getting UK contribution-based JSA for up to three months while you look for work elsewhere in the EEA . But you must have been getting contribution-based JSA before you go abroad.

UK contribution-based JSA is paid by the employment services in the EEA country in which you register for work. Payment is made in local currency at the rate of contribution-based JSA you were paid in the UK, and is authorised on form E303. This form is issued by The Pension Service.

If you can get UK contribution-based JSA in another EEA country, you can get a letter from your Jobcentre Plus office or Jobcentre to help you in registering for work in that country. Give it to the authorities who run the employment services in the other country.

If you can get UK contribution-based JSA in another EEA country and you are going to look for work in any of the following countries, you will also be given form E303:

Austria
Belgium
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Malta
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland.
But you must tell the Jobcentre Plus office or Jobcentre in good time before you go that you need it. If you do not, it will be sent to your address in the country you have moved to. If you are going to look for work in any other EEA country, then form E303 will be sent to a liaison office in that country.

In each country in which you are looking for work you must:

register for work;
and follow the rules of that country about being available for work.

[spiral78]

Again, not just in terms of Poland, but Europe in general:

I think the thing that makes the above NOT work for English teachers is that this is not a job that the job centres in Poland can register you for. And the regulations you cite indicate that you must be able to register to be eligible for benefits.

English teaching, outside of the public schools, for which you are not eligible, is not exactly a recognized sort of job. Those who teach at private language schools in Poland are not eligible for any kind of benefits if they don't get enough hours - because they all work for small private companies, under a variety of legal (and less than legal) contracts.

Job centres are generally aimed at getting people who can do some variety of stuff employed - You would obviously be ineligible (due to lack of language skills) for the kinds of jobs a typical job centre can place people into, such as secretarial and manual labor positions.

You should be aware that every 'job' isn't created equal. English teachers, for example, are specifically excluded from some visa considerations here in the Netherlands where I teach, for example.

Littlebird, you are very unlikely to find the financial support you are expecting to get so long as you plan to work in this field. It's just not available.

[hrvatski]

[simon_porter00]

Littlebird, I think you may be under the assumption that because you can get it/are legally entitled to it/whatever doesn't actually mean you will get it. One thing you have to understand from the off is that the Polish bureaucratic system and civil servant departments all hate each other, will tell you different hings and will treat all and sundry who ask for help as dirt. That (with very very few exceptions) is how it works here.

In short. Going into a Polish government office with your UK documentation will get you absolutely diddly squat without:
a native who will talk for you - expensive
an obliging civil servant - very unlikely
a civil servant educated as to cross border agreements especially when you will be the recipient of Polish money - incredibly unlikely
sworn translations of documents - most likely
stressing yourself to the point of heart failure - very likely.

But if you want to give it a shot, let us know how you get on.

[simon_porter00]

To further my point, this is what happened to me today.
I went to my bank to arrange a no frills credit card - to pay for skype and the like, no meaningful expenditure. (The fact that you STILL have to pay an annual fee in this damn country ... anyway, that's another topic.) I go to my bank of 18 months and ask for a credit card in broken Polish. The conversation went like this

ID? - Yup, here's my passport.
Credit limit? If it's over 9.5k we'll need to see some employment documentation. - no need, 9k is fine, even less if you like.
Ah, no, we can't give you a credit card - you're not a resident. - Hmm?
You're not a resident, therefore no deal bozo (or words to that effect) - I've lived in Poland for 4 years, I've got my mortgage, which I've had for the last 18 months with you, in my name, to an address down the road. You can see my credit history and all the details about me. You can even see all the documentation that I needed to set up the damned mortgage. What do you mean i'm not a resident?
(Talks to boss) Do you have residency documents? - Of course, I showed you them when I set up the mortgage.
We need to see them. - WHAT?!
We need the number and we need to photocopy them. - But you already saw them. 18 months ago.
Sorry, we need to see them. Again.

And so it went on, with no success.

It took them 10 minutes to change my address from "Warszawa, Weilki Brytanyja," to "Warszawa, Polska" and of course I had to sign a document acknowledging the change.

So to reiterate - if you want to tackle the Polish systme, good luck!