Job Discussion Forums

[goeastyoung(ish)man!]

Sorry if this is an old one, but a quick search didn't turn it up. I am failing a total of about 4-5 university writing class students for plagiarism. I gave them a chance and then several warnings. Ironically, I am an easy grader. So far, no flack from the uni, but I did get some tears. Thats the tough part for me. Am I slaying windmills? Does anyone else fail students for dishonesty?

[Shonai Ben]

When I was a teacher in high school back in Canada I definitely did.Now I don't have that problem teaching in Japan.

[KateCee]

I'm a teacher in a Middle School. I gave my students a surprise test 2 weeks ago, mainly to check their level of comprehension. I was strict with them (all books put away inside the desk, only pens & the papers I handed out in sight). Yet, when I turned to the black board to write out the questions, they quickly started whispering & checking their books. Students will be students, I guess, no matter where in the world. I stopped them in their tracks again. I warned them before they started answering that I would take away their papers if they were caught cheating in any way. I did find at least one in each class & when I took away the paper, they others believed me.

The following week, when I handed out the graded papers, I explained why they had to be honest & that cheaters don't always prosper, etc. To enforce it, I gave the top scorers (on an average, there were only 2 per class) a pencil with Canada & the flag all over it...of course, it was made in China!

Kate

[Roger]

Honesty, personal endeavour and success - all very nice and very sophisticated Western concepts that don't catch on in this part of the world.
In my Literature classes, I used to ask them to answer questions on form I handed out. They could not just enter "Yes" or "No" or "False" or "True", they had to fill in some prose to argue, reason, recite and write.
Wisely, I chose from the start to hand out two, sometimes three different kinds of forms, and I separated the class into groups A, B and C, down the lines so that not any two students could copy from one another except by turning heads 180 degrees.

It took the whole gang only one month and a half to make me change my approach: they complained about "unfairness" to them. In fact, halfof them were the laziest slackers you can imagine, while the other half was not bad or even excellent! The school did not interpret the differences between their performance, they listened to the complainants who were a minority, and the minority carried the day.

At the end of the semester, the laggards were still laggards, but one boy in particular had the temerity of asking me to upgrade his score "because if I don't pass I am going to lose my face". I was not prepared to budge, but I later left the school, and from rumours I heard I must conclude that he was officially granted a score closer to his own wish than to reality.
I don't know what's more important - to tell a student your own opinion and let him cheat (as this is a society that knowingly engages in self-deluduing themselves all the time)), or to play by their rules without making a point of intimating one's very realistic and personal opinion to the young student.

[struelle]

[whitjohn]

As we who are here now know, finals are coming in the next few weeks. Today, I submitted my exams to my assistant dean and she made a point of letting me know that there was to be no cheating. I even prepared two exams so I could give a different one to those seated next to each other.
I am teaching written and oral to sophomore university students.
I for one believe that you CAN teach oral English. I have my students practice speaking to the class and everyone corrects their classmates mistakes. They learn fast this way and have fun as well.

[dduck]

[Chairman Roberto]

Since cheating is socially accceptable in the country, this is the way I handle it:

1. From DAY ONE, establish in VERY CLEAR, no uncertain terms that you will not tolerate cheating. Define cheating. Say it in Putonghua, their local dialect, give it to them in tripilicate documents, whatever it takes. An effective way to get your students "scared straight" is to threaten to tell the Dean on them if you catch them cheating.

2. I would advise giving a Mid-term and/or some quizzes that WON'T be a big influence on their grade. So when the cheaters inevitably do what is socially acceptable, WHAM! Enforce your edict and tell the Dean. Then they'll really know you mean business when you give the more grade-significant Final Exam. So a few cheaters lose face in the process...you gotta break some eggs to make an omlette, y'know.

3. If you're at college and have smaller classes (45 and under), decrease the importance of the test. My tests are only 30% of the grade...the other 70% comes from their attendance and participation. So, cheating becomes moot, anyway. (I understand this is unrealistic in middle school, with classes of 60 or more).

4. Stick to your guns. You're getting paid the same regardless of how many pass or fail...unlike your Chinese colleagues, who have to report high test scores to get raises and promotions which..well whaddya know...leads to them allowing their students to cheat. Somebody get me an Advil...

You're NOT being cold-hearted by ignoring tearful supplications to ignore cheating and/or allow a failing student to pass. These slackers should be shedding tears for those students who actually work their *utts off improving their English to legitimately pass your tests. My REAL students are who I keep in mind when I'm hearing the latest sob story. I believe I owe it to my honest students to enforce cheating rules and uniform grading. It would be grossly unfair to them to do otherwise.

and you can take that to the bank,
The Chairman

[davis]

I like what the Chairman said but I too worry about a student losing their freakin face. I've been pretty damn lucky so far, I've had minimal cheating. I'm working for a well known language mill but I've contracted to teach at only one middle school. The kids are great for the most part and work hard. In fact I feel guilty when I give them homework but I'm a firm believer in the idea that if they can learn to write in English then they will have an easier time remembering how to speak English. So we have tests about every two weeks on the average and sometimes a surprise quiz. One reason is to see how much they are learning and what we need to review but also to keep them on their toes. Another reason is to get them over the fear of TESTS. I told them in Chinese that there'd be no cheating or I'd rip up their paper. I still hear an occasional whisper and see a head cranked around about 90 degrees but I nip it in the bud and it seems to be working...so far. We had a parents meeting last week and from the feed-back it sounded as though my mantra of" No Tuo Kan, No Shu, No Dictionary," has become quite popular among the students. But truely, I feel lucky to have this group of learners.

[fat_chris]

[Kurochan]

It depends. For assignments and speeches and things, I usually fail the student for that assignment, and tell them if they cheat again, I'll give them an F for the whole class. With quizzes and tests, first I make it hard for them to cheat, and then I'm hypervigilant. I have freshmen this year, and when I tested them last week, I told them not to talk or they'd get zeroes. In practice, if anyone talked, I'd walk up to their desk and mark their paper with a pen. The students got really scared afterward, and said they were just asking if they could borrow erasers, etc. Well, it COULD be true. I explained what would happen if they cheated during a big exam like IELTS or what would happen if they cheated abroad. In the end, I penalized them by lowering their grade by about 10 pts. (the value of one question). Since they were probably allowed to cheat in h.s., I think it's okay to give them a penalty and a warning the first time (especially b/c they really could have been asking for erasers or whatever) rather than failing them. However, there was another boy in another class who was blatantly bending over and looking at somebody else's paper, and I WILL fail that guy. He was so blatant it was disrespectful.

[Roger]

The way these kids cheat is so obvious, and downright naive!

Typically, answers with mistakes contained in them get copied letter by letter: "My vader is 64 years..." read that three times in writing assignments from the same class, and you know you must give each student a different topic to write about!

[goeastyoung(ish)man!]

Yes, they are so often naive that it makes me think they never needed to hide their cheating before. I have two different writing classes. I got the same narration from one student in each class. Both looked me in the eye and swore they wrote it. It was full of colloquial American language and the dialog was well beyond them in form.

Another student handed me a typed essay which included a reference to "our recipe page" (a webpage). He didn't even bother to check his cutting and pasting. Upon receiving his paper with a zero mark, he actually stood up in front of the class to complain that they didn't need a foreigner teacher with a Chinese teaching style. I still don't know what he meant.

As far as failing some students, so far the school is backing me, or at least the department is. I have heard of a backlash against another teacher who failed some in his class last year, but I don't know the details.

[gmat]

Roger:

[Chairman Roberto]

I've seen my fair share of lamebrain cheating attempts, such as students opening and closing their desks to check for answers, and cheat sheets plain as day on top of the desks.

Again, the pathetic cheating methodolgy is the result of a simple fact that every foreign teacher in China must face up to. Cheating is not only socially acceptable, but actually EXPECTED to give the teacher face in the form of high test score averages. Yes, it's a jaw-dropper to watch how flagarently (and incompetently) these students attempt to pass your tests. But hell, I would be doing the same thing if mommy and daddy were breathing down my neck and my teacher was threatening my honor (face) if I didn't give him the test score he wants.

You have to put your foot down. There's several effective ways to curtail if not outright eliminate cheating...such as gmat's multiple test versions (I've done that), subjective/open-ended test questions, and hawk-like test proctoring.

But in the end, the only way these people will ever learn is through their own cultural conventions...the shame and humiliation of losing face. I'm sorry, but that's the only motivation that will ever really SINK IN. The cheaters must be receive zeros, the dean informed, whatever it takes to SHAME them. No, I'm no sadist and believe me, I take no pleasure in humiliating anyone. I remember what is was like to be in high school and college, and I swore I would never be like those teachers I hated. But this isn't America. In China, I believe shame is the only language these cheaters will ever understand and respect. They're not Americans, where shaming someone will likely bring resentment. Here, shaming could very well be the epiphany they need. A taste of the outside world's rules, at bat at real-life hardball. They may be bawling and their face irrevocably destroyed, but...sorry to sound like your grandma...but haven't the most valuable lessons you've learned in your life been painfully learned? I know that's been the case with me.

I doubt a cheater will ever thank you for your painful lesson, but if there's any justice in this world, they'll emerge a tougher, wiser, and who knows...smarter student. And God knows that's precisely what this country needs as it weens itself from the Mao's NannyState to the wild and brutal world of the free market. Your hardline against cheating is a little glimpse into the Barbarian Kingdoms outside the Middle Kingdom...a little prelude for China to see what it's up against.

As far as your honest students...they can hold their heads a little higher. They're a cut above, and they don't need to play any stupid games to pass a test. And who knows? Maybe a few of those honest achievers will realize "Wow, I have what it takes to go to graduate school or even a foreign college." I know a few of my students do.

I understand it's possibly all moot...your failing grades will be reversed, the cheaters given another undeserved chance. But hey, the old saw still holds, even in this Wonderland: They're only cheating themselves. The middle schools and colleges of China will continue to suck until this culture gets a handle on this cheating thing. Don't hold your breath: Cheating on exams has been going on since the Great Wall was completed. But in the meantime, our countries, where real academic success is rewarded, will be more than happy to drain the brains of the best and the brightest of China. So who's cheating who?

the Chairman