Job Discussion Forums

IamHenry · Joined: 16 Dec 2008 Posts: 3

Which airline should I take for a one-way trip?

Thanks!

jotham · Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 77

I'm not sure what kind of criteria you're looking for.

But since you've brought it up, something's been on my mind about airlines recently. Is it just me, or has anyone noticed that different airlines fly much more smoothly than others? I personally hate turbulence (so I'm particularly aware of it), but when I've flown China Airlines and the supposedly safer Cathay, I almost always feel more comfortable on China Airlines. Is it because of how they fly, or the aerodynamics of the airplane, the routes or altitudes they choose? Cathay and Japan Airlines, and perhaps United seem to fly aggressively, like being in a fighter plane sometimes. American Airlines seems more on the smooth side.

Does anyone else notice this, or know why this might be the case?

enoch83 · Joined: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 69 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

jotham · Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 77

forest1979 · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 507 Location: SE Asia

In response to jotham's post I'd like to say that in the past 12 months I've flown 60,000 miles with Cathay and never once had any problems or concerns with turbulence - and this to a variety of places during a mix of seasons. But if you would prefer taking a company with a shocking accident record keep flying with the cheaper China Airlines, as jotham so much prefers.

BigWally · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject:

China Airlines...more like China Scare-lines....here's some recent clips of China Scare-lines amazing safety record since 1999....

Runway Overshoot

Exploding Engine

Attempted Landing

jotham · Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 77

enoch83 · Joined: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 69 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

dangerousapple · Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 292

Easygoing is not the word that I would use to describe China Airlines pilots! I stopped flying with them for many years because of their safety record. Their safety record sucked in the past because they hired old pilots from the Taiwan air force, meaning they had a bunch of cowboys flying the planes. Those were some rough, zigzaggedy flights!

To their credit, they have turfed a lot of their old pilots, and worked to improve the quality of their flights, but there is still more to be done. I flew with CI to Hong Kong a few days ago, and it was just like old times, with a very aggressive pilot. But at least the service was good.

yamahuh · Joined: 23 Apr 2004 Posts: 1033 Location: Karaoke Hell

Never had any issues with China Air - except for the seriously crappy food.

markholmes · Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Posts: 661 Location: Wengehua

nickolasc · Joined: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 6

Ok guys, been reading this entry with interest. I fly myself and have spend many hours in a 737 sim (don't ask how!!!). Some aircraft (wide-body ones I'm referring to here, eg: A330/40, 767, 777, 747 etc..) are a little smoother than others, not that you'd notice up the back. Most if not all aircraft have what is called a 'yaw damper' which acts like a shock-absorber on a car and smooths out the ride without pilot input. It makes little adjustments to the vertical stabilizer to keep the aircraft straight so the tail doesn't move sideways too much in flight.

Choice of altitude on long haul is determined mainly by efficiency (fuel burn), and it can and often does change during flight, depending on conditions.

Jotham, I've done some pretty silly maneuvers in a 737 sim, from barrel roles to flying under the Sydney Harbour Bridge, and trust me, these aircraft can do a whole lot more than you'll ever experience during a flight, with any airline. What you perceive as a tight turn is nothing on what it can do. I've taken off, done a 180 and dropped it back on the runway in less than 5nm in the air from wheels up to landing!!!

By the way I used China Airlines to go SYD, SEA return via TPE and thought they were very good, beat the crap out of Qantas and half the cost. Yes they've had a few incidents but that does not make them unsafe. I think they've recorded something like 8/1,000,000 fatalities and Cathay is something like 2/million. 4 times more unsafe yes, but 4 times not very much is still not very much if you see what I mean.

Message me if you have any specific questions or post em here and I'll do my best to answer them.

timmyjames1976 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 148

I rather enjoyed EVA.

jotham · Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 77

nickolasc · Joined: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 6

Hi Jotham,

It's pretty much a national pastime for Aussies to rag out QANTAS. Full of rude hosties that hate their job, they charge a fortune, have no idea what customer service is at any level and live off the self imposed 'world safest airline' tag.

[is it possible that the big China Airlines vehicles are bigger than Cathay's? I can't imagine it has much to do with the "yaw damper," cause it's the up-and-down movement of turbulence that I notice -- not side to side. ]

I think from memory Cathay are phasing out their 747 fleet and replacing them with 777's and fly a lot of Airbus A330 & A340's. The main advantage of the 777 over the fairly comparable A340's is longer range and a bit better efficiency and slightly bigger passenger capacity. (A340's are almost the same as a A330 but with 4 jets instead of 2 for longer range and ETOPS issues) CA mainly use A330's and A340's for long haul and a few 747's so they have a similar fleet, but no 777's that I'm aware of.

Turbulence is normal and almost never dangerous, but the reason to always keep your belt on. Even a fairly severe 'bump' wouldn't change the altitude by more that 20 metres dnd by dangerous I mean throw passengers around a bit, not cause a jetliner to have a catastrophic failure of some kind. The crew change altitude and sometimes heading to avoid turbulence not because it is dangerous, just uncomfortable.

The yaw damper makes a big difference, if it's off that is!!! Wings have flex in them to smooth turbulence out and some do it better than others. As you could imagine these things get better over time with new design and material technology etc...So the newer the design the smoother generally. Click on the link to see how much a wing on a modern jet can bend and how much force is needed for it to fail.........

http://www.videosift.com/video/Boeing-777-Wing-Stress-Test

[I know my fears are totally irrational, and that it's safer than driving -- though I've never been in a car wreck either -- but I just can't analyze them away.]

Your fears aren't irrational, people ride in cars everyday, not in planes, thus the feeling, sounds, sensations aren't 'normal.' Also in planes you aren't in control which is never comforting, I always feel more relaxed if I'm driving and not a passenger in a car.

Incidentally, the safest place in the event of an accident is over the wing as it's the strongest part of the airframe, not up the back as most people seem the think.

Also the thrust to weight ratio on say a 747 and 737 is almost the same. The takeoff speeds are similar, about 120knots fully loaded for a 737 and 140 or so for a 747, this varies depending on you weight, conditions, airport, a whole number of things and generally 15-20 degrees nose-up is the angle you depart at.