Job Discussion Forums

[sammie08]

I get more and more confused the more I read on the Vietnam forum: everyone either seems to absolutely hate or love living in VN. Those who know VN well, why do you think there are such huge disparities in opinion? Why are there so few people on the forum who say VN is just mehh?

The people who hate it, are these people just crusty types who hate everything?

Or are the people who love it, are they a little dim and think everything in VN is a wonderful, beautiful cultural experience regardless?

Where are the pragmatists on the forum?

I am going in a few weeks to Hanoi, I am excited and nervous. I appreciate any information, constructive criticism, advise I'd otherwise not have. Often times though, I just end up confused because so many of the opinions expressed are absolutely, diametrically opposed.

Thoughts?

[inky]

Vietnam is a constant, it doesn't shift its character or nature for individual visitors: it is the constant thing in the equation. The variable is the visitor. Each person arrives in Vietnam with their own expectations, needs, degree of open-mindedness, level of acceptance and tolerance, and personal history. These are the things that shape a person's reactions. One person is overcharged ten cents for some bananas and smiles, while another is outraged. Vietnam is not an easy place to live, young kids from the countryside come to the cities to work 12 hours a day on construction jobs for a dollar... a day. And they often sleep in doorways in-between jobs. Oh, wait, I forgot. We're talking about how difficult it is for teachers, who can earn $2000 or more a month and live like kings while receiving respect and admiration from their students, even when they perform at a mediocre level.

[jestert79]

I'm probably repeating myself from earlier posts...

I lived there for a year, and while I can't say I loved it head over heels, overall I enjoyed it. But there are some things that just wear you down: people trying to sell you stuff, trying to walk down a sidewalk and people yanking their motorbikes out in front of you, Vietnamese cutting in front of you in line because you're a foreigner, people staring at you, people (taxis especially) trying to rip you off and not budging on their 500% price increase.

But I found the people overall very friendly, and the students very motivated and eager to learn (something I didn't have in Poland.) Also, taking a vacation and travelling (even within Vietnam) did wonders for my exhaustion with the above things.

I don't know, maybe the people who hated it let the stuff really wear them down.

The difference with me is I had never been in an Asian country besides Vietnam; one of the things people seem to cite is that other Asian countries are better, a comparison I never got to make.

[phobic 888]

I am in the same boat as Sammie08 but I strongly believe that Vietnam, like most things in life, will be whatever you make it. If you want to enjoy it you will, and if you don't you won't.

[ajc19810]

Discussion boards will always have differing opinions. It's up to the person.

But I will say this, if you are a person that lets little things bother you then I dont think Vietnam is for you. If you are easygoing and can keep some perspective then Vietnam is truly awesome.

Now excuse me I have to go for my daily nap and then its off for some Bi Da. Tough gig!

[sigmoid]

[sigmoid]

By the way if you want to get familiar with what's going on in Vietnam why not just read an online newspaper such as:

http://www.thanhniennews.com/

http://english.thesaigontimes.vn/

http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/

http://www.vietnamnews.com/en/index.php

[ClaudeRains]

Helllo Sigmoid. You're an old hand on this forum. In your own opinion, how does Vietnam rate? What countries in Asia would you prefer more? Many of the posts here seem quite sarcastic. This is not one of them. I have been following Dave's for a while, and I recognize your name as a reliable source.

[sigmoid]

[expatgirl]

This is a personal response having arrived back just a couple days ago.
Granted, up-front I am not young: a vet of EFL/ESL with 25 plus years worldwide, university mostly, but I could not see myself working there. I was really quite disappointed having considered it as a possibility for some years now. A kind of semi-retirement job, not looking for the big bucks of previous posts. However, I was constantly worn-down by the noise, traffic chaos and general disarray of life there. The same examples of what the OPs have said on the subject. I had Vietnamese business owners even admit this to me w.r.t wanting to take advantage of foreigners! I spent a month there, and was in most places except for Saigon. Students seem really eager, a shame really as teachers are badly needed for their burgeoning tourist trade.
I strongly suggest a visit if "on the fence" about wanting to live and teach there.
For the record, I came closest in Da Lat, but the university only takes volunteers (in a 20/30 age bracket)
Any PM's welcome from more experienced teachers,
Regards

[kurtz]

I'll try drag this discussion back onto the table.

I was thinking about a similar post but hell, if someone didn't beat me to it.

Just a few thoughts. Seems a few of the arguments could be used for many Asian countries, pushing in, trying to charge foreigners more, noisy, chaotic traffic, many who love it seem to be young and not well travelled (I can vouch for THAT one in Korea). So are you guys saying it's simply worse in Vietnam than say Thailand, Cambodia or China?

Being in Korea, people push in, people talk about you in front of your face assuming you understand no Korean, many Koreans have no problem simply ignoring you at work dinners, they don't stop at red lights, these things can get one down too. Those who are sick of it tend to go on forums and bitch about it, thus putting doubt into the minds of the uninitiated.

I went for a short holiday in Vietnam, but what I did find was taxi/xe om drivers are VERY predatory, and people seemed to openly rip you off if you're a foreigner, so is one to assume those who slag off Vietnam are those who can no longer stand the above, and those who say it's good haven't got to that point yet?

I read one poster a couple of months ago who seemed very positive, but a recent post suggested otherwise. Maybe living abroad in Asia is just difficult in general and it just depends on your adaptability and tolerance.

Have to admit, I'm personally putting a lot of thought if my Plan B in life of doing ESL in Vietnam is wise.

[inky]

[expatgirl]

In answer to "kurtz" via "inky" I think that age - or being young - does have a lot to do with it (tolerance factor) Although, I met many a young person living in VN who was equally put off by the rip-offs, noise, disarray, etc.
A month can well be long enough to assess viability if you have lived and worked in numerous countries for over twenty plus years. See for yourself in the future!
My life experience enabled me see the positives, some of which you have mentioned, but the negatives (all been discussed) far outweighed these as a place to call home while teaching!

[mach114]

I have to agree with inky 100%. I taught in Saigon for 6 years and in the beginning it was rough. Where wouldn't it be? New culture and language, nothing like home. You are suddenly the outsider instead of the resident. All of these things can be negative, but if you stick it out, have patience, and begin to understand how things work then life gets easier. It is a rich culture, with interesting people, and plenty of things to do. I found the biggest positive to be that life had less stress in Vietnam.

Kurtz said : Maybe living abroad in Asia is just difficult in general and it just depends on your adaptability and tolerance.

In the case of Vietnam, this statement holds true. You have to be tolerant and adaptable. If your not, then Vietnam is probably not the place for you. You'll find it in no way comparable to western living. I visited Korea, after living in Vietnam, and I thought it was certainly more like the USA than Vietnam by far.

[kurtz]

Thanks guys, I know you have already responded to this post but I always like to try and get many different points of view.

I like what I hear about the students' attitude. Here in Korea they are either very rude or very very shy! I really hate shy students, they hardly talk, and it's stressful and draining to get get them to open their mouths.

Well I think Vietnam sounds OK. I doubt I'd be making any large purchases so getting ripped off for lots of money wouldn't be an issue, it's a very beautiful country, and I guess I'd have to travel to Saigon before I commit as I've spent a week in Hanoi so I know the rough scene there.

Even though Korea is quite Western, it's the feeling of never fitting in, always being an outsider and the Korean attitude of having no shame in letting that be the case which I really hate here. I hope Vietnam proves a little more welcoming in that respect.