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manamaorigirl
Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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 Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: Single mothers/women working in the KSA |
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Hi to any women and/or mothers working in the KSA
I'm thinking of teaching in the KSA next year and just wanted a heads up
on life for expat women/mothers over there.
I have 5 years teaching experience in Thailand, Japan and Sth Korea as well as onlin tutoring experience
What should I be prepared for? What kind of jobs/conditions are available?
What are the childcare options like?
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated as I do have Saudi ex students in country but of course they have their own bias towards the Kingdom!!
Cheers!! |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| It sounds like you haven't done any search here yet. Do a search and let us know your qualifications and what KIND of teaching you've done. |
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freesoul
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
Posts: 240
Location: Waiting for my next destination
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| You will need a 'Mahram'. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| any women and/or mothers working in the KSA |
So one can be a mother without being a woman???
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| You will need a 'Mahram'. |
Simply false. Thousands of 'unaccompained' single women work here.
The fact that you seem to be a single mother could be a much bigger problem. Many places might not be prepared to take you on as such, and even if they are, it could prove difficult, if not impossible, to get the paperwork to bring your child with you to KSA. This is particularly likely if you were never married to the father of your child.
| Quote: |
| What should I be prepared for? What kind of jobs/conditions are available |
AS others have said, it's very hard for us to give advice without knowing what qualifications you have. The better employers usually require an MA in Applied Linguistics or TESOL and/or a CELTA with several years experience.
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| What are the childcare options like? |
Some colleges do provide childcare facilities for their staff, but from what I've heard they're quite basic. The norm in this part of the world is to hire a full-time, live-in nanny to look after your child(ren) in your home. There are a few 'de luxe' creches available in some of the bigger compounds, but these tend to be prohibitively expensive for EFL teachers. |
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SD BOY
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Don't feel too discouraged. Remember, many of the "better" jobs in Saudi are pretty lousy too. It's just that some of the contributors to this site like to imagine they are working in prestigious, highly sought-after positions.
Another thing is that pay for women in Islamic Paradise is generally considerably lower for women.
With your background, you'd probably be able to find a decent EFL job in Qatar, the UAE or Oman.
All of which offer a far more salubrious atmosphere than KSA...especially for kids. |
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SD BOY
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Please forgive above typo "for women". I should have said "than it is for men in similar positions." SDB |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Another thing is that pay for women in Islamic Paradise is generally considerably lower for women. |
Not at my college it isn't. Can you give examples of where female teachers officially receive a lower salary than male teachers employed by the same institution? |
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SD BOY
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't say "men and women working at the same institution" as this is an comparatively rare occurrence in the Holy Land..as you well know.
However, the women EFL instructors whom I associated with in Riyadh and Dhaharan were receiving something like half to a third less salary than mine for comparable labor. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Salaries aren't calculated according to 'comparable labor'. If they were, someone working at BaE systems would get the same or less than someone teaching in a college. It is a fact that salaries differ quite widely among various employers. While it's true that the very high paying jobs - ie military contractors - are mainly or exclusively for male teachers, that's not the same as saying that women get paid less than men for doing the same job.
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| I didn't say "men and women working at the same institution" as this is an comparatively rare occurrence in the Holy Land.. |
Not really. Here in Riyadh there are several institutions/colleges with separate male and female branches. Similar places exist in other parts of the Kingdom too. |
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paradox3696
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 44
Location: Normadic
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| SD BOY wrote: |
Don't feel too discouraged. Remember, many of the "better" jobs in Saudi are pretty lousy too. It's just that some of the contributors to this site like to imagine they are working in prestigious, highly sought-after positions.
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you have said the best. and your points can be found and proven from most of the postings with few exceptions. |
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SD BOY
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Look, I said the situation in KSA regarding male/female segregation was "comparatively rare."
Rare as compared to the general conditions in London, Istanbul, Tokyo or San Francisco, for example.
Not rare when compared to, say, Slovenia in the tenth century. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Back to the practicalities of a single mother bringing a child. Even in Oman and the UAE, the provision of the divorce papers giving the mother complete custidy of the child/children is not enough. I have known people who took months to chase down ex-husbands and get them to provide a permission letter. The Muslim world doesn't see the possibility that the father does not have complete control over the children until their majority.
A point of law that many western women married to Arabs have learned to their chagrin when they tried to get their children back - foreign custody laws are not recognized in the Middle East.
VS |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I have known at least three single mothers living here in the Eastern Province. In all three cases, the children were over twelve. One of them did have a terrible time chasing down the father of her child, but she told me that it was the fact that she was Muslim which made it extremely difficult.
The one American non-Muslim single mom that I knew didn't seem to have any problems. It is actually a fairly easy place for a single mom to raise a child, given that it is easy and fairly inexpensive to hire household help. The biggest problem is always transportation, but it isn't that hard to find a reliable driver to run the kid to school or dance classes or whatever.
As long as you have the father's permission to bring the child over here, I can't see that it would be too difficult to be a single parent here. |
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manamaorigirl
Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone - especially SD Boy.
I have been flicking through the posts and have noticed some people
are particularly hardcore about their responses to the point where the original questions asked are not the main focus!! Like it' a personal forum to air one' own feelings
Anyway - I have a BA in languages, CELTA and one year teaching middle school age girls in a Thai private girls school and 18mths each in Japan and Sth Korea teaching conversation English to adults (uni students/business people) which included TOEIC study and TOEFL essay writing
In regards to the father of my 9mth old son, he is not a part of our lives at all and isn't registered on my son' birth certificate
I chose Saudi Arabia because some of my ex students left Korea to go home so I thought it would be easier to live there knowing people already |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| manamaorigirl wrote: |
In regards to the father of my 9mth old son, he is not a part of our lives at all and isn't registered on my son' birth certificate
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That is not a concept that is accepted or understood in these conservative Muslim countries. They will still expect a marriage license, divorce degree, and a signed paper from the father allowing you to bring the child. For many employers, this will make you unemployable.
Unfortunately, you also do not have much on your CV to provide you with many opportunities in the first place. (there are few, if any, conversation classes and the TOEIC isn't used in the Middle East) As was answered for you on your other thread, university level usually requires an MA and the better schools require a teaching certificate from your home country. The low level employers who might consider your credentials in the Gulf would be the lowest pay and the poorest working conditions. There are a number of ghastly employers in this part of the world.
With a new baby, I would be very leery of putting myself into a unpredictable situation like this. Just having a few ex-student friends in the country is not enough of a plus IMHO.
VS |
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