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wfh · Joined: 10 Nov 2006 Posts: 30

Oh dear.

I didn't dream I'd ever be in this position.

I am about to return to my home country, and duly applied to a language school in the area. I thought my CV was good. I've been teaching for five years, just finishing up two years in the English Language dept of a Middle Eastern university. I have an MA.

After a few back and forth emails it transpires I'm not going to get hired (no final rejection, but strong hints) because my TEFL cert (which I did 18 months ago, by distance, at the behest of an interested employer who wanted me to be "certified") didn't involve any observed lessons.

So this is a warning. And a question - is there anything I can do to appease my potential employer? I would dearly love this job.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

Well, you seem to have lots of experience. What's your MA in? Maybe that can count, if you can convince the institute of it.

IS there anyway that you can get observed now by your uni in the ME? Or try doing a demo lesson at the institute? Try to be persistent, just don't go overboard.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Sorry, wfh. This won't be helpful to you!

But, we say on an almost-daily basis that a minimum newbie TEFL/TESL cert MUST include that all-important supervised teaching practice.

You've unfortunately become a living case in point (though I'm truly sorry that you've got problems with this).

Would-be newbie teachers - don't bother with any cert that doesn't include the teaching practice!!

wfh, I don't know where you want to teach. But I can say from personal experience, that, in Canada, even private language schools won't touch anyone with an on-line cert. Likely it's the same in the States, though it may depend on how much the region needs teachers (and how little schools there can get by with so far as salaries are concerned).

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject:

Do you have any other teacher training which did involve observed teaching?

If so, tell them now. If not, sorry to hear it. But if you don't have any training that involved practice teaching, then you don't have any training.

Try to sell the experience. But it very well may not work. (Probably wouldn't with me, to tell the truth.)

Best,
Justin

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

wfh · Joined: 10 Nov 2006 Posts: 30

Thanks for the replies.

I'm looking into getting an assessed teaching add-on certificate. I really don't have the time/spare cash to do a whole new certificate. I'm seriously depressed because my way into teaching didn't start with a certificate, and I simply never had the time/need to do one (After graduating I was trained by an independent ESOL organisation, and I progressed from there, this is my first bump). That was on my CV, but the lack of certificate connected to this seems to be a major sticking point.

Looks like this job isn't going to work out though, so it'll be a few months of administrative work for me.

I admit I'm perplexed that my experience counts for absolutely nothing, compared to someone who has the cert + observed teaching + zero experience. Does on-the-job training count for nothing?

Now to wallow in self-pity for a while. Yes, it's just one employer, but they're the only employer in the area!

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject:

wfh · Joined: 10 Nov 2006 Posts: 30

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject:

wfh · Joined: 10 Nov 2006 Posts: 30

Well, in my defence (if they're terribly dodgy) - a prospective employer actually paid for the course, I wasn't involved in the selection, and went through the certificate at their request.

Ironically, I didn't end up working for them. Maybe that was fortunate.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject:

You got a potential employer to pay for training!?!?!

Clearly, you're smart and resourceful, so I'm not going to worry too much about you.

I've had a browse around INTESOL's sight, though and can't say I'm overly impressed. They keep saying that they're one of the world leaders in the field, and I can't seem to recall having heard of them before. Odd.

Maybe I've just missed this one, but I'd like to know if anyone else around here knows anything about them. It's not a reputation if they're the only ones who have heard it, after all.

Best,
Justin

Mike_2007 · Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 349 Location: Bucharest, Romania

Interesting discussion on the balance between experience and certification.

At what point do you think the experience supercedes the certification?

Let's assume I have no CELTA (I do, but for the sake of discussion let's assume I don't). I have ten years experience in the field, mostly working as a freelancer. This means I have no employers to give me references, but I could get together quite an array of companies and individuals willing to write one on my behest. Having been freelance for so long, I'm used to doing all my own prep, assessing students, arranging contracts, scheduling, invoicing and all the other administrative chores that come along with the job. Let's assume I also know the students' L1 pretty well too.

How would you view an application from such a person (considerably more than 'some' experience, but no CELTA)?

Regards,
Mike

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject:

Hi Mike,

This is what I meant when I said "it is a tough call."

In an ideal world, I'd want to sit down and talk to all individuals in question. Long talk.

I'd want to probe your ideas about language teaching and learning. I'd want to know how you'd react in given classroom situations. I'd ask you for advice about problem students. I'd ask you to respond to difficult grammar questions that students ask me. I'd ask about your favorite resources, and what makes them favorite.

I'd bother the heck out of you with questions, in fact.

Because in the case of the hypothetical you (10 years, no training) it would sort of fall to me to assess what you'd gotten out of your experience. Experience can, no doubt, be the best teacher. But it can also mis-teach, and not everybody is good at learning from experience.

And I wouldn't know which one you were. I might be able to get something out of a good interview- if you're either in country or somewhere that a longish phone interview is feasible. But if this isn't possible...then you may not be a good risk as a new hire.

I guess I get a little tired of all the "I don't have any training, but I have experience!" apps that I get. Sometimes the experience isn't even checkable. Even if it is, though- it presents quite a job to figure out what they got out of it. I am certainly not just going to take the applicants word for it.

I'd also ask what the decision to work without training, or not to get further training as the years go by, says about an applicant.

Best,
Justin

Chancellor · Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject:

Mike_2007 · Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 349 Location: Bucharest, Romania

In my example case, I mentioned having references from students. Wouldn't that in itself be evidence enough of the capacity to teach? After all, if you can call a potential employee's ex-students and speak to them (assuming they aren't all fake references) that would be proof enough of the candidate's abilty to teach (or to at least please potential students).

Which do you consider more reliable as evidence of ability? A teaching certificate, a reference from a past employer, or references from ex-students?