Job Discussion Forums

[Adeem]

The FAO at my university has informed my friend (in advance - impressive!) that the laws for issuing work permits in China will be changing after this term, and teachers who are over 60 years old will not be able to gain a work visa, or apply to renew their residence permit.

Of course, he isn't too happy about this, being fairly settled into his job, and I wanted to find out what the rest of you folk in China might have heard about this. Is it hokum made up by the FAO? Is it a local policy that is only affecting us in Sichuan, or is it rolling out nationwide?

I have seen over-65s denied visas in the last few years, but it doesn't seem entirely reasonable to make such a drastic change to immigration policy for an age bracket that provides a lot of fully qualified, and often vastly experienced teachers for institutions in China.

Can anyone shed any light?

[vikuk]

Why are all your friends so old - yet they aint half as blind as you are

I reckon that the over 60 is a normal cut-off age in some countries (although I'm not sure of work visa regs for other places) - since "health-wise" the older person is deemed to be more of a potential liability - and thats regardless of how fit and healthy all our over 60 mates are.
Saying that - the chinese have health checks that are suppossed to weed out those who don't meet the health bill. But I suppose - if your info turned out to be true - those in power don't really trust their systems of check and enforcement - so a possible lock-out for all us old codgers.

[Neilhrd]

A ban on the employment of over 60s has been in place in Guangxi for about a year. As usual here enforcement is sporadic and depends on the connections your employer or FAO has with the local PSB. But one university here, which fell out of favour with the government over an unrelated issue, has had several existing teachers refused visa extensions and new recruits denied entry to China.

However there are a few ways around the rules. There are many retired guys living in Nanning who have Chinese wives and are here on spouse visas. Some of them do private tutoring on the side and the government seems to turn a blind eye to this. They certainly have no difficulty getting residence permits. Another dodge is to do what the Chinese do and fake your age. They don't seem to check foreigners birth certificates.

A senior official of the Guangxi Education Bureau told a teacher's meeting here in 2006 that a ban on over 60s would be introduced. the reason he gave was that the authorities were afraid of diplomatic and legal hassles when foreigners die in China particularly if they die on the job. There may be some truth in this because there has been at least one particularly nasty case in Nanning involving a disputed will and medical expenses and two FTs I used to work with had heart attacks whilst in post.

[Hansen]

This news has been going around in central China as well. It was confirmed by a personal friend who is connected to the FAO's office.

My guess is that health issues are a major concern. I was required to have health insurance this new contract period, something optional in the past.

[eddy-cool]

Neilhrd: You mentioned a 'spouse visa'; how does one get one? Or an RP as a laowai spouse of a Chinese partner?

Just in case I want to stay on without necessarily be the lackay of some employer. I did meet 3 foreign guys married to locals; two of those were well into their sixties, and by gosh, none of them was teaching.

[Ariadne]

I'm in Fujian. Our FAO said the cutoff age is 65. Lots of universities have a high percentage of 55-65 year old FTs. I think it might be difficult for schools to match the levels of experience, stability, and credentials that this age group offers.

So, is the age limit a decision made by each school, each province, or by China's central government?

.

[Hansen]

A local PSB official directly involved in granting visas told me the best way to remain in China is to get married. She said that a new visa will be given annually in such cases. Of course, one must apply and pay.

Considering the nature of business here, this would appear to be a prime opportunity for someone to fatten their wallets at lao wai's expense.
Do you really want to give a local official that kind of power in your life, to decide whether you and your wife can be together?

I'm not that desperate for a visa.

Incidentally, she also said that the visa granted to a spouse does not allow the spouse to legally work. That's another process.

Hearsay, take it or leave it.

[bendan]

[xiao51]

You can tell that it's spring time in China...

every spring, the same old canards turn on again on this Board....

this thread being one of them...

go back and look at the archives, you will find the same thread, every spring more or less, for the last 5-7 years.

This is China and the law is a matter of human interpretation. And there is no one on this board, including myself, that has the golden ear and unfettered trust of the Chinese government, to be able to so firmly make the assertions that are being made around here.

To wit, there was a thread around here by some of the more august members of this board last year claiming that "psychological testing" was going to be put into place and they even linked to a site that they claimed was SAFEA-approved. That was a great canard and it never happened. And all of these posters, strange isn't it, are involved in the following, or at least parts of it.

To wit, there was and still is another thread around that with a fervent claim by one poster that involvement in religious activities (in this case in Dalian) would result in sanctions. Another mini-canard on this board.

To wit, this thread about age restrictions (which have been in place for years and years and are just not applied uniformly if at all) with all of the usual "I heard it from the washerwoman whose husband's best friend is cousin to a police officer in Heilongjiang". More canards. This one is a spring flyer, every spring, same thread, often the same members writing it.

To wit, the thread about foreign-approved and sanctioned background checks being required in China with all of the assertions by the SAME board members who set all of the other above rumors into motion. Well, folks, I just returned from the PSB with a new residence permit and they were dumbfounded about this one. Another canard.

And so forth and so forth and so on ad nauseum.

[Adeem]

[Hansen]

Adeem,

The point is that there is little in the way of universal application of the law, regardless of what the law is. People with guanxi can usually find a work around. As a wise Chinese acquaintance of mine said. "When you have problems, you need a friend to help. If you don't have a friend, find one."

"Laws" and so forth are trotted out on an as needed basis. It sounds to me that your friend's days are numbered. Perhaps he has been having his way with young women on school grounds. Rather than confront him, it is easier to say that the law requires him to leave because he is too old.

He may never know why he is not wanted. It may be true that the "law" is the issue. Maybe not.

[Adeem]

Too true

I will have to tell him to get rid of one or two of his girlfriends, and keep a few stashed away in reserve where the FAO can't see them till July.

Maybe he can go and chat one of the higher authorities up..........

[xiao51]

I will pass on Adeem's rudeness and stick to the issue.

What Hansen writes is the exact truth.

The "law" is being used as a cover, a face-saving device and if you understand the concept of face in China, Adeem, you might wish to look closer at your friend's countenance.

It might be women, it might be booze, politics, anything but age. He tripped a switch so to speak.

[Teatime of Soul]

[Adeem]

Many thanks for your opinions, chaps and chapesses.

I do agree with what you say.

Perhaps his incendiary declaration of war with the housing staff over a curtain in his kitchen may have been a bridge too far - all the way over the River Kwai perhaps.